My mistake - I did mean franchises, although my "not much more than a decade" estimate looks far too optimistic.

 

“Consultants”. That’s a word that just fills you with fear!

 
"Consultants" are everywhere in Government, so I think they can be ignored for this exercise?

 
And even then, isn’t DfT Operator Ltd still a partnership between Arup Group, Ernst & Young and SNC-Lavalin Rail & Transit? 

 
yes, indeed - I thought TonyK was referring to franchises, but re-reading refers to just rail.

 

Hull Trains, Lumo, Grand Union, Great Central, Go-op, West Somerset Railway, companies moving freight not passengers, Hythe Pier Railway, ....

 
Which TOCs won't be?

 

Not a hope in hell!

 
... and rail fares will inevitably have to increase, just to pay for all that. 

 

At least the crazy notion of the railways being privatised is coming to a rapid end, along with the façade of independence from government. It should be all back in public hands within not much more than a decade. There will be serious negotiations with the unions they get the best of each TOC's T&Cs for everyone across the board, after which the government of the day can start talking about weekend working.

 

Journeycheck is accurate!  Crew will be juggled about and favours of crew asked which often results in services being reinstated during the course of the day.
No one likes a cancellation announcement minutes before a departure!

 

Good old Journeycheck! As reliable as the rest of GWR!

 

That doesn't seem be the case looking at what ran and didn't run on RTT, which looks a little better than Worcester_Passenger's screenshot rather than considerably worse. 

The 14:54 RDG-GTW ran and the evening return trip to Shalford has been reinstated.

 
It's got considerably worse.....

Cancellations to services between Reading and Gatwick Airport

Due to a shortage of train crew between Reading and Gatwick Airport some lines are closed.

Train services running to and from these stations will be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 18:00 02/12.

Customer Advice
Due to shortage of train crew, we are unable to provide a train service from Gatwick Airport to Reading.

 
Today on the list of cancellations on JourneyCheck, we have three successive Reading - Gatwick trains.

 

Looking at today's shambles on the map, I'd suggest they book a few more.

 
GWR are pre-empting weekends from now until new year, with 2 standby coaches being booked 12 noon until midnight every Saturday and Sunday at each of the major stations

 

No option but to make a “no strings”. All TOCs are on different T&C’s!

Should have been left as each individual TOC negotiated its own pay deals.

 
National Rail is reporting that a shortage of a train crew means services across the CrossCountry network are disrupted. As a result, trains across a number of routes will be cancelled, and this will last all day.

They have ticket acceptance with GWR and are encouraging customers to use their services as an alternative - that may make things even cosier.

 

Interesting hypothesis given her caving in to ASLEF with a "no strings" pay award that made no progress on Sunday working.

 

Might take a bit longer to resolve now Louise Haigh has quit.

 
.............and here we go again, for another weekend - I wonder if we will get to a point in the foreseeable future when GWR aren't telling its customers to "only travel if absolutely necessary and change plans if possible"?

 

Yes - cancellations due to flooding, fallen trees etc are easing and GWR are returning to normal service......... ie cancellations due to a shortage of train crew 

 
Noting several cancellations and short runs today - shortage of train crew.

 

I suspect Highway’s England have been run off their feet booking hotels for journeys motorists couldn’t complete because of flooding on their network!!!!

 
Many A roads up here in Oxfordshire.....

 

To be fair to GWR, a lot of minor roads are impassable due to flooding…. and not many coach operators would be willing to risk damage to their vehicles by going through flood water

 

This is the post I was referring to - directly above mine, so reasonably obvious - and IS weather-related.

 

Direct quote from GWR "We had a reduced timetable in place due to engineering work and crew shortages and severe weather has affected the remaining services I am afraid" - so a bit of everything.

They are also telling their customers that they won't be rearranging replacement transport but if you can arrange your own they will reimburse, and whilst not being quite so explicit, suggesting that hotel bills will be met for those stranded. Apparently Paddington is predictably appalling.

What arrangements will be made for any vulnerable customers, or those who don't have the means to make upfront payments, God knows.

 
Maybe for the DfT - GWR aren't able to do much about the problem currently

 
Convenient weather for GWR.

 
Weather-related, it must be clarified

 
Now reporting that all trains between Plymouth/Cornwall to London are cancelled

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/trains-plymouth-cornwall-london-cancelled-9740819?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0l7rev06oErhJt_UhQ0Kn-CZzMUfqwGwKvX58hM0aKKtAU4aHqUvFOtxc_aem_wH6PWkvCEX59WFuDKklasw#Echobox=1732458165

 

And of course, having replies turned off means that GWR don't have a public record of the justifiable complaints about the woeful service they provide far too often. Today is another example of the all too regular Sunday meltdown due to GWR's inaction in addressing crew shortages. Handily today though GWR can somewhat use the weather excuse to hide behind.

 

Yes, my mistake, should have been Southern.

 

That really is newsworthy given SWR don’t serve Gatwick. 

 

I agree with having replies turned off, means GWR can put their own updates to the thread if need be without it being flooded with responses that may not be relevant. Anybody that wants to ask them a question can obviously still do so in the usual way of using X.

 

Just quoting GWR.............SWR also have a number of cancellations on their Gatwick services.

 

With four return trips being cancelled so far (with no successive cancellations) on a twice per hour service, there is only a delay of 30 minutes to most prospective passengers, less on parts of the route that SWR overlap. 

I would imagine any form of road replacement would be of little use given how much slower it generally is?

 
............similar story with the Reading-Gatwick service too..........although no road replacement there, customers being told to travel "much earlier"


Cancellations to services between Reading and Basingstoke

Due to a shortage of train crew between Reading and Basingstoke fewer trains are able to run on some lines.
Train services running to and from these stations will be cancelled or delayed. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Customer Advice

Due to crew shortages between Reading to Basingstoke (return) fewer trains will run. Rail replacement transport has been requested. However, transport is limited and will be running late. Where possible please speak to station staff.

 
Out and about this morning ... and the train departure screen has a rolling message telling you that trains will be disturbed tomorrow due to "Engineering works between London and Reading and crew availability".  It goes on to tell you to check your journey on Sunday morning and I wondered and I wonder whatever has happened to things like the 12 week notice of disruption to plan ahead.   There ARE lots of signs already about the engineering closure from Chippenham through to Westbury and Frome from 24th December to 24th January.

 
You can’t keep telling people every weekend We advise customers to only travel if absolutely necessary yet that’s what GWR keep saying.

Sigh, not really. I saw what TG posted above on the GWR website on Wednesday evening but couldn’t be bothered to post it as I think the expectation is that mass cancellations will continue to happen for the foreseeable.

My wife has to travel to Stansted airport on Sunday afternoon. Just booked the ticket but in the knowledge that come Sunday morning the train she’s booked on to London may be cancelled and we’ll have to adjust plans accordingly. Pathetic that we won’t know until then. I know we’re not the only ones.

 
Just quote reply. They can't turn that option off

 
......here we go again! Another weekend......so.....

The message on Twitter/X makes specific reference to crew shortage.....and as seems usual now GWR have turned off the ability to reply with any questions etc....Great customer service!

 
From the BBC ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e8y2xxldlo )... is this even news any more??

 
Some recent posts from this topic have been moved to Frequent Posters Club, due to concerns from our members over the terminology used in them.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=29501.0

 

Natural knowledge. I have always used my free travel facilities.

 

I might have wondered about Oxford - Marylebone - 205

 
It's certainly the way I would have thought of going in those circumstances too - although I wouldn't know how long it would take - and whether I would have caught a particular Eurostar - without sitting down & working it through.
Has to be quicker than DID->RDG->Ealing Broadway & Underground

 

Sensible alternative ... but not what I would have thought of.   How did you come up with that - natural knowledge of did something / someone waymark you to it?

 
I was waiting at Didcot for that service when it was announced as being cancelled at Reading. Managed to catch the 387s in front to Reading then via the land of the stabiliser rail to Vauxhall for the Blunderground to Kings Cross and my Eurostar to Brussels.

 


The gateline at Swindon was open.   On board there were no ticket checks, let alone a look at reservations.   However there were no issues with capacity.

The only snag was the broken rail at Acton Main Line - so I never actually got to Euston with the train terminating at Reading!   Fortunately there was a service back to Swindon within ten minutes.

As an aside all the screens on the platform (as above) and onboard the displays and announcements coped with London Euston.  However the platform announcements just left an embarrassing gap every time the terminus should have been mentioned.

 
I poste on Sunday morning about a defective rail around Acton way - this meant the first 0833 to Penzance was cancelled, and the next few services ran late.
Was wondering how 'reservations only' were policed.

 

How did it all go on Sunday at Euston?

 
There is England v the Republic of Ireland at Wembley today which may attract a few and England rugby yesterday.

 

......two more off the GWR crew shortage Bingo card! 

 

Christmas shopping with their back-pay, along with using up annual leave I suspect

 

Would have formed the second departure (0903 to Swansea, after the 0834 to Penzance) - but was 'promoted' owing to the 0834 being cancelled owing to a broken rail at Acton.

 
Today's (Saturdays) cancellation map looks more like a typical Sunday.

Saturdays have been steadily deteriorating with Sundays simply a shambles.

Is this the level of service we can now expect every weekend?

No school holidays/football matches or any other of the usual excuses that I'm aware of?

 

Gets the first train into Euston for a Westbound departure.

 
Oh.  That'll be useful - for someone. 

 
There is also a single Oxford to Euston service at 0754, calling at Didcot only.

 
One tph will go to EUS from both the west country & Swansea.

Other services, including others from closer to London from the west country (think Exeter) and Wales (think Cardiff) will go to Reading, so Reading can be reached from all stations. Those that go to Reading connect into slow(er) trains to Ealing or Waterloo.

 
I imagine it will largely being used as a general deterrent to travel on those services rather than being rigorously enforced at gatelines on the day.

 

Having seen the Euston stampede on more than one occasion that is truly a scary prospect if they are going to be checking tickets & reservations before boarding,  and let's face it if they don't it's hardly worth telling people it's reservations only.

 

The term "simply not fit for purpose" has become something of a catchphrase, to be used when someone in authority knows something is wrong, but also understands their complete inability to do anything about it.  As a phrase, it's simply not fit for purpose.

In this case, it had to be used because the other standard option, "this is a mess left by the last lot to sort out" wouldn't work. The mess was left by the now-present lot for the last lot to sort out, in the full knowledge that 14 years is too short a time to change agreements between unions and multiple train operating companies plus National Rail. Let's see what happens, but I can't seen a sudden resolution any time soon.


It's simply not fit for purpose.

 
I think (hope!) I have managed to undo those random quote marks in your post, eightonedee.

CfN. 

 
Apologies - somehow my whole post above has got wrapped up as a "Quote" and I cannot unravel it - perhaps I should become a GWR message draftsman.......

 

I have read this several times to try to understand what it is saying. Does this mean that no long distance trains from Devon, Cornwall and South Wales will stop at Reading, but those from everywhere else (Cotswolds, Bristol, Hereford/Worcester) will? But are these "the majority" of long distance trains? And what is a "long distance train"? London to Oxford, or Banbury, or Swindon, or Westbury? Should passengers from Reading or changing there - (for example coming in from Gatwick) and going to South Wales or Devon and Cornwall go somewhere else and change?

And in light of the concern and publicity about crowding at Euston (which presumably will still also be coping with its usual Sunday traffic to Birmingham, the North West and Scotland), wouldn't it be sensible to give passengers a stop at Reading (especially as it now has the through platform capacity) so they can change for Waterloo or Ealing Broadway as alternatives, or if they cannot book in advance?

As for - this looks like "we are a bit of a shambles because we cannot sort out our systems for something we have known about in advance for months"

You have to carry on right to the end to get the "only travel if necessary" message. This surely is the main message. It should be at the beginning - the message should -

 1- start by saying that considerable disruption caused by major engineering works means Only travel to London by GWR if absolutely necessary.

 2- Go on to advise passengers with alternative routes to London that they should use them if possible - from Oxford and beyond should travel to Marylebone, passengers from Reading or Exeter and beyond should consider trains to Waterloo.

 3 - Explain clearly which other services will run to and from Reading and which will go to Euston, and what you should do if your train terminates from, or starts at Reading.

Wouldn't that be clearer and better?

 

Yes, Westbound too. One of the key purposes of "reservations only" if to ensure that passengers travelling from London are given that extra alert as they book and reserve to stop them turning up as usual at Paddington having made the assumption ...

 

Does this apply to any GWR journeys departing Euston too?

I have a vision of the scene at Euston, already unsafe*, whereby the platform is as usual announced at short notice & the resulting stampede is stopped in its tracks and backed up by Gateline staff trying to check reservations as well as tickets, and the inevitable arguments with those that don't have one.

* I've checked with my Boss and I won't be sacked for stating that!

 

Especially in the UK setting where even long distance trains aren't running as dedicated high speed services and provide the local service especially on the periphery. I assume reservations only will only be properly enforced towards the London end (if at all) but going by the letter rather than spirit does the person popping into Cardiff or Plymouth "need" to reserve? Even if that's not going to be a problem it is technically saying they do and that's potentially off-putting.

Also it removes flexibility to replan given that delays and cancellations have been promised on this occasion, which will mean potentially two loads of reserved passengers on the next train, and perhaps soemone on a flexible ticket could usually choose to avoid that train. Maybe the Eustons will be "protected" from this but there's no guarantee of this.

 

Elizabeth Line running a reduced service too on Sunday.

 

Is this a dangerous precedent - a move away from the turn up and go railway/ In the past I have seem occasional national franchise services that have been "reservation only" but there have always been alternative train not too long before or after that have served the same stations.

 
Early heads up: https://www.gwr.com/sunday-disruption

 
I’m slightly, just slightly mind, encouraged that there was an acknowledgment from the SoS that there is an issue with GWR, that they are aware of it and are working with GWR to address it.

 
Yes, that's how 're-nationalising the railways' will solve all of the problems. 

 

So basically, nothing will change.  Expect more disruption and industrial action.

 
It is well worth reading the whole thread referred to above - which started when the Secretary of State Louise Haigh made a statement on the progress that the set up of GBRailways was making through Parliament.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/our-progress-in-overhauling-the-railways

 
Quote from yesterday's (11 Nov) Parliamentary debate (relates to GWR staffing

 Rebecca Smith (South West Devon) (Con) -  View Speech -  Hansard -
 -  - Excerpts
It has recently been brought to my attention that in Great Western Railway, which serves my constituency in Devon, drivers do not have contracts that ensure a seven-day-a-week service—the contracts do not include Sundays, so trains are regularly cancelled. In fact, four trains were cancelled yesterday, so one lady had been forced to catch the first train today instead. What plans does the Secretary of State have to equalise driver contracts under Great British Railways, to ensure that routes such as Paddington to Devon are fully staffed seven days a week, so that she can fulfil her promise to passengers?

 Louise Haigh Portrait Louise Haigh -  View Speech -  Hansard -
 -  - Excerpts
The hon. Lady is absolutely right, and unfortunately that is the picture across too much of our railways. The workforce terms and conditions are simply not fit for purpose. Part of our inheritance is that we do not have a workforce that can deliver a modern and efficient railway. We are working with Great Western Railway to address that egregious issue, and we will come back to the House shortly to set out our progress.

Later in the debate...

Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD) -  View Speech -  Hansard -
 -  - Excerpts
GWR, which serves my Bath constituency, has been performing in the most disappointing way, to say the least. Especially on Sundays, cancellations and delays are the new norm. Engineering works are among the problems, but the train driver shortage is the biggest problem. What exactly will resolving what the Secretary of State calls the rest day working issue mean for my constituents? When does she expect them to see tangible change?

 Louise Haigh Portrait Louise Haigh -  View Speech -  Hansard -
 -  - Excerpts
The problem across the entire railway is that we do not have sufficient drivers or staff, so too many parts of the railways are reliant on rest day working agreements. We should not have to rely on people volunteering to come on shift in order to run a Sunday service, but unfortunately that is the case at Great Western Railway. We will not be harmonising contracts or terms and conditions at Great British Railways, as we have established, but we need to get drivers and conductors on modern terms and conditions that reflect the railway that we need. We are attempting to address the specific issue at Great Western Railway; as I say, we will come back to the House soon with an update on progress.

https://parallelparliament.co.uk/debate/2024-11-11/commons/commons-chamber/rail-performance

 
Next Sunday (17/11/24) could be interesting.  Ealing Broadway to Paddington will be closed and services diverted into Euston, so I can see a couple of scenarios....

- many 'bashers' may be stranded when (if) they reach Euston; or
- some drivers will want the opportunity of going into Euston, so rostering won't prove difficult.

 
More train crew isn't the answer unless Sundays are correctly rostered in the working week. Not committed Sundays and therefore enforced overtime but as part of the base roster.

It would also help if the staff weren't travelling around then working a train for 30 minutes before another crew change.

As I've stated previously this problem is only 30 years old...

 

Which is why I've looked at a modest reduction and not an elimination.   The easy things to sort out are those with a single cause / weak point, but we have many issues; in this case I'm thinking that perhaps 60% to 70% are down to crew and it's a good place to start.

 

Perhaps.  But we reassured from some sources that on a day by day basis they're only a handful of crews short across the whole area, so who to believe?   By the way I costed "25 more crewS" [of 2] rather than "25 more crew"

 

Erm…that 25 more crew on the books would barely make any difference?

 
Not all the delay repay claims are related to staff shortages. Infrastructure failures, especially those impacting peak services, are likely to result in a significant percentage of those claims, not least of which because regular travellers will be used to claiming.

 

About £80,000 per day ...

Put another way ... £30 million a year. If it costs £300k per annum to employ a train crew, that's 100 train crews.   Let's say they had 25 more crews, which is many more than they say they need, would that allow them to halve the delays.  Looks to me like they'll end up £7.5 million better off ... what have I missed?

 
According to the GWR website, they’re paying out between £2m to £3m a month in delay repay.

 

I suspect there'll be fewer people claiming delay/repay pretty soon as they'll be travelling by other means knowing that they can't rely on GWR on Sundays.

It's just possible then, when revenue starts to tank, that all concerned will wish they'd tried a bit harder to reach a solution.

 
Absolutely, but that is reliant on people claiming delay repay. How many don’t? I suspect it’s quite a lot.

Meanwhile, started the day with 23 cancellations, now up to 75 

 

Again, he shouldn’t need to find solutions….. there’s only one and that’s increasing the rate of pay for Sunday’s.  Obviously someone somewhere is not agreeing to that happening.  At the moment, there’s probably a huge amount being paid out in delay repay, replacement coaches and taxis so presumably someone is cutting off their nose to spite their face.

 

The two websites agree, depending on the search parameters input - ask National Rail for options from Penzance to Plymouth and the trains listed are shown as running; but for journeys beyond Plymouth onto Paddington they come up as cancelled, as the journey requested can’t be completed.

 
According to GWR Journeycheck 1518 Penzance to Paddington cancelled with 1618 & 1755 both terminating at Plymouth.

According to National Rail all three are cancelled throughout - which should be believed?

(Both agree it's due to crew shortage though)

..........can add the 1650 to that list too according to NR

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/journey-planner/?type=single&origin=PNZ&destination=PAD&leavingType=departing&leavingDate=101124&leavingHour=14&leavingMin=00&adults=1&extraTime=0#O

 

Who's going to replace them?

 

I genuinely hope Hopwood is taking the approach suggested by his PR team in order to find solutions, rather than simply sitting back saying "DfT problem".

I guess it's worth bearing in mind as well however, that these highly paid managers in GWR must be conscious that their sinecures are coming to an end given the new Government's commitment once existing contracts expire, and it's only natural for their motivation to slip somewhat in these circumstances as "dead men walking" - so to speak!!!

 

As I understand it, the contract does also include a measure of disruption / unreliability that's allowed, accepting that things will never be 100%.  Delay attribution calculations are done so that GWR are not financially liable (for example) for a failure to run services when the tracks are flooded, and this attribution can get silly at times - if a train hits a small bird it is treated differently to a train hitting a big bird.   I have asked one of the managers concerned what the measure of disruption actually allowed is, and understand that it varies; I also got the message that I am probably not bright enough to understand the algorithm used even if I were told.  I may not have got that message quite as it was intended, mind you.

 

That relates to the pre-pandemic contract. The new post-pandemic contract does not have these stipulations, just a timetable that has to be operated, if everything like staffing is adequate, which it obviously isn't - so as a-driver states correctly, it is for the DfT to find a solution that works.

And Armistice Day is MONDAY this year, not tomorrow.

 
Just a reminder of the position from the GWR PR machine......

We’re also looking at what interim measures we could take to help improve colleague availability on Sundays and are talking to the Department for Transport about what may be possible as any changes require their approval. Mark Hopwood, our MD, is clear that the current situation is unsustainable, this is a top priority for the business to look to resolve and that most importantly our customers should expect us to run the advertised timetable.

That reads to me that GWR acknowledge at least some ownership of the issues sits with them, notwithstanding it may need DfT signoff - so what are these proposed changes?

There's also the small matter of this event tomorrow............I wonder what provisions are being made?

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/24707925.gwr-set-armistice-day-event-paddington-station/

 

In a way, GWR don't operate the contract stipulated by DfT because there is a published DfT Business requirements specifying first and last trains and frequency for each route, associated with the contract, and that is not being met.

Possibly the contract daftly (DfT-ly ?) makes it cheaper to not operate minimum, and accept any penalty, than trying to deliver it.

 
Don't wish for what may be a disaster for rail....another Beeching-esque report. The DfT tasking GBR to organise the timetable after nationalisation is complete that breaks even.