| Re: Oxford station - facilities, improvements, parking, incidents and events - merged posts Posted by TonyK at 17:05, 14th November 2024 |      |
It will be interesting to see if the Transport Secretary can do anything to actually help move things forward, or will just complain instead.
| Re: Oxford station - facilities, improvements, parking, incidents and events - merged posts Posted by ChrisB at 21:34, 12th November 2024 | |
From the BBC
MP to meet transport secretary over station delays
An Oxford MP is set to meet with the transport secretary to discuss delays to work to upgrade the city's rail station.
Layla Moran raised the lengthy delays to the £161m Network Rail project, which has seen Botley Road closed since April 2023, in Parliament on Tuesday.
Transport Secretary Louise Haigh said the situation was not "good enough" and agreed to her request for a meeting.
Network Rail has described the project as "incredibly complex" and said it was "taking the time to get it right".
Ms Moran, the Lib Dem MP for Oxford West and Abingdon, said she was planning to attend a meeting of businesses affected by the works later in the week.
Her office said firms had reported up to a 60% drop in income and many were "deeply concerned" about how the closure would affect trade over Christmas.
Ms Moran said Network Rail's motto seemed to be "move slow and break things" and that it had "mismanaged" the train station upgrade.
She said she previously wrote to Transport minister Lord Hendy, who had agreed to meet with her, but now "seems too busy".
Ms Haigh said she agreed "the situation in Oxford isn't good enough".
She said she agreed with Ms Moran's characterisation of Network Rail and said that was "part of the reason" why it was being abolished.
"I will of course meet with her to discuss how we can improve the situation," Ms Haigh said.
Speaking afterwards, Ms Moran said she looked forward to finding "an acceptable way forward”.
“Network Rail have demonstrated utterly shambolic project management from start to finish, and residents have lost all faith in them to deliver this project," she added.
In a previous statement a Network Rail spokesman said: “We are working with the Department for Transport and local authority partners as we undertake a full review of the programme and will provide an update on timescales for the next steps of the project.
"This is an incredibly complex project, involving multiple organisations, so although we know everyone wants clarity, we are taking the time to get it right."
An Oxford MP is set to meet with the transport secretary to discuss delays to work to upgrade the city's rail station.
Layla Moran raised the lengthy delays to the £161m Network Rail project, which has seen Botley Road closed since April 2023, in Parliament on Tuesday.
Transport Secretary Louise Haigh said the situation was not "good enough" and agreed to her request for a meeting.
Network Rail has described the project as "incredibly complex" and said it was "taking the time to get it right".
Ms Moran, the Lib Dem MP for Oxford West and Abingdon, said she was planning to attend a meeting of businesses affected by the works later in the week.
Her office said firms had reported up to a 60% drop in income and many were "deeply concerned" about how the closure would affect trade over Christmas.
Ms Moran said Network Rail's motto seemed to be "move slow and break things" and that it had "mismanaged" the train station upgrade.
She said she previously wrote to Transport minister Lord Hendy, who had agreed to meet with her, but now "seems too busy".
Ms Haigh said she agreed "the situation in Oxford isn't good enough".
She said she agreed with Ms Moran's characterisation of Network Rail and said that was "part of the reason" why it was being abolished.
"I will of course meet with her to discuss how we can improve the situation," Ms Haigh said.
Speaking afterwards, Ms Moran said she looked forward to finding "an acceptable way forward”.
“Network Rail have demonstrated utterly shambolic project management from start to finish, and residents have lost all faith in them to deliver this project," she added.
In a previous statement a Network Rail spokesman said: “We are working with the Department for Transport and local authority partners as we undertake a full review of the programme and will provide an update on timescales for the next steps of the project.
"This is an incredibly complex project, involving multiple organisations, so although we know everyone wants clarity, we are taking the time to get it right."
| Re: Oxford station - facilities, improvements, parking, incidents and events - merged posts Posted by ChrisB at 12:19, 19th October 2024 | |
From what I understand, the Network Rail contractor - Keir - are doing most of the work for all utilities. There aren't 19 utility owners all digging their own channel, for instance.
Once it comes to actually feeding cables through a pipe, or making a connection to a water main itself, then the owner does the work to completion - but otherwise Keir are doing the main works after agreement with the utilities about design/route, etc.
It was Keir that held all the public consultations too - of which various of us did warn them of problems ahead, some of which they have now acknowledged they ignored....
| Re: Oxford station - facilities, improvements, parking, incidents and events - merged posts Posted by stuving at 12:01, 19th October 2024 | |
I presume the water utilities are under some kind of legal obligation to cooperate with other land users who want pipes and other things moved. Most commonly this will be a roads authority, since most pipes run under roads. I have not found out where that obligation is defined, or what they can be made to do in terms of speed or anything else. It's hard to believe they can be forced to give this a higher priority than their primary functions, or penalised for taking longer than they "promised".
In this case Thames Water's pipes are being moved primarily for the purposes of lowering the road, a project that takes advantage of the rebuilding of the railway bridge to also widen the road and its side paths. So The county council (and the city too) have their own requirements , as well as the railways' ones, and neither they nor any of the utilities are working for Network Rail - though they will get the costs paid.
So, while Network Rail sits at the top of the whole scheme, can they really be held responsible for when Thames Water's work, or the whole roads element of the project, gets finished?
| Re: Oxford station - facilities, improvements, parking, incidents and events - merged posts Posted by ChrisB at 11:32, 19th October 2024 | |
They have saved a week already with the boring of holes & will complete that next week with the last hole.
Hopefully, Thames Water will select a connection point from one of those holes.
Yes, I suspect you aren't far out, and everything will obviously stop for the Christmas/New Year fortnight.
| Re: Oxford station - facilities, improvements, parking, incidents and events - merged posts Posted by grahame at 11:17, 19th October 2024 | |
So 5 weeks to do the boring. Followed by [? how long ?] for Thames Water to work out which location and agree to it, followed by 9 weeks to calculate completion date and get final budget approval. So we should have an update beyond "dunno when" sometime in the New Year?
| Re: Oxford station - facilities, improvements, parking, incidents and events - merged posts Posted by ChrisB at 11:04, 19th October 2024 | |
The trial holes are for connection of the *new* water main. Thames Water refused the original locations from the contractors as they were too close to possible contamination from the foul sewer pipe.
Until Thames Water accept a new location, the date of completion cannot be calculated, nor approval of the final budget approved by the DfT. Once the DfT has approved any of the 3 plans being presented, then the completion date can be worked out. This will take 9 weeks from when Thames Water agree a new location.
| Re: Oxford station - facilities, improvements, parking, incidents and events - merged posts Posted by grahame at 05:28, 19th October 2024 | |
From Ground Engineering
Just part of the story ...
Oxford station upgrade: Trial holes drilled after complex utility diversions cause delays
[snip]
“There are a number of buried pipes and cables from various different companies, many of are strategically important e.g. water main. The condition of these pipes and cables is varied some abandoned and no clear owner identified,” they said.
Another major challenge is a brick arch that was discovered underneath Botley Road in sum 2023, that was not previously recorded. The arch is believed to be Victorian and was placed t manage water levels. As such, the impact of removing it was unknown.
[snip]
“There are a number of buried pipes and cables from various different companies, many of are strategically important e.g. water main. The condition of these pipes and cables is varied some abandoned and no clear owner identified,” they said.
Another major challenge is a brick arch that was discovered underneath Botley Road in sum 2023, that was not previously recorded. The arch is believed to be Victorian and was placed t manage water levels. As such, the impact of removing it was unknown.
I don't see anywhere in the article ( member mirror ) a suggestion of a completion date. Perhaps that is wise as, from my reading, they're at a research stage and don't know what the final outcome will be.
| Re: Oxford station - facilities, improvements, parking, incidents and events - merged posts Posted by ChrisB at 21:20, 15th October 2024 | |
The hole is an exploratory hole for a Thames Water connection to their new Water supply pipe. The two original sites were refused at a late stage owing to being too close to the foul sewer. It is these holes (5 in total, this is the third) that is holding up Network Rail's reappraisal of costs & request to DfT for approval of additional funding. Once Thames Water pick their site, Network Rail are saying it would be 9 weeks before a decision is made by DfT.
| Re: Oxford station - facilities, improvements, parking, incidents and events - merged posts Posted by TonyN at 21:11, 15th October 2024 | |
I have been to Oxford today. There is now a large hole in Botley road west of the railway between Abbey Road and Mill Street. Pedestrians can walk along the south side of Botley road but not cross over to Cripley Road.
They have to walk along Abbey Road and through Cripley Place to Reach Cripley Road and along the west side of the railway to Jerico.
Buses going to the temprorary bus depot also have to go via Cripley Place. Access to the MIll Street Area for residents only by going round and then being allowed through the work site to cross from Cripley Road to Mill Street.
| Re: Oxford station - facilities, improvements, parking, incidents and events - merged posts Posted by stuving at 18:56, 15th October 2024 | |
Having not seen it for some time, the sight of the Botley Road bridge in September came as a surprise. (Photo below...)
Which is the footway that is to reopen please?
Mark
Which is the footway that is to reopen please?
Mark
It's round to the right of your picture. The pre-diversion arrangement is currently on Google Earth. Those coming into Oxford under the bridge, or down off the footbridge, would exit (to the right) onto the south side of Frideswide Square. The diversion routes them across Botley Road to the north side of the Square.
| Re: Oxford station - facilities, improvements, parking, incidents and events - merged posts Posted by Mark A at 18:37, 15th October 2024 | |
Having not seen it for some time, the sight of the Botley Road bridge in September came as a surprise. (Photo below...)
Which is the footway that is to reopen please?
Mark
| Re: Oxford station - facilities, improvements, parking, incidents and events - merged posts Posted by ChrisB at 18:02, 15th October 2024 | |
And Network Rail has said that they will reinstate the south-side footway for at least the 5 weeks prior to Xmas.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by grahame at 17:22, 15th October 2024 | |
Oxford Mail https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/24504486.oxford-politician-said-botley-road-shut-end-2025/ now reporting that a local councillor has stated that the Botley Road is unlikely to be open until the end of 2025. No official announcement from Network Rail, but I do feel sorry for the residents of Oxford.
Businesses too ... from This is Oxfordshire
Amanda Suliman-Bell, who runs Rainbow & Spoon cafe, complained that footfall had fallen by 90 per cent since the diversion, which guides pedestrians away from the south side of the square.
Earlier this month Mrs Suliman-Bell said she feared she would have to shut the store if the original walkway was not restored in the near future.
She emailed Network Rail and contractors Kier urging them to restore the original pedestrian walkway as soon as possible.
She said in her email: "I have lost 90 per cent of my footfall since you changed the walkway over on July 1 - with absolutely no warning, no announcement, no hint and zero thought as to how it might impact those businesses on the south side of Frideswide Square - indeed the only side of the square where there are businesses."
Earlier this month Mrs Suliman-Bell said she feared she would have to shut the store if the original walkway was not restored in the near future.
She emailed Network Rail and contractors Kier urging them to restore the original pedestrian walkway as soon as possible.
She said in her email: "I have lost 90 per cent of my footfall since you changed the walkway over on July 1 - with absolutely no warning, no announcement, no hint and zero thought as to how it might impact those businesses on the south side of Frideswide Square - indeed the only side of the square where there are businesses."
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by nickswift99 at 15:10, 8th August 2024 | |
Oxford Mail https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/24504486.oxford-politician-said-botley-road-shut-end-2025/ now reporting that a local councillor has stated that the Botley Road is unlikely to be open until the end of 2025. No official announcement from Network Rail, but I do feel sorry for the residents of Oxford.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by didcotdean at 11:21, 26th July 2024 | |
Network Rail say they 'need more time' before it can say when Botley Road will be reopened as "a review" is now being carried out.
"The review will look at what has been achieved so far, what remains to be done, plus the timescales and budget required. It will also consider options for rescheduling the replacement of Botley Road bridge.
"This is an incredibly complex project, involving multiple organisations, so although we know everyone wants clarity, we are taking the time to get it right.”
(Source: Oxford Mail)
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by eightonedee at 08:25, 13th July 2024 | |
No. I was referring to the practice of having a continuous reinforced trench laid, mostly in the margin of a road, often under or alongside the footway. This is now quite usual in new developments, especially larger scale ones.
It's the same idea as practiced in Germany as referred to by Ellendune.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by stuving at 19:08, 12th July 2024 | |
I do though agree that combined services cable ducting would be a good idea. It's just that we are about 200 years too late now!
You didn't mean this, did you:
Fibre in water
March 2022 - We’re doing our research
Our plan is to put the fibre cables into ‘messenger pipes’, which are made from the same material as our new water pipes. The messenger pipes will protect the fibre cables and make sure they don’t touch the water.
But first things first, we need to make sure this is safe for customers. We’ll look into any possible risks and will iron out any potential problems with the design, technology or processes.
What’s next?
If the project passes the initial research phase, 17km of fibre-optic cables will be laid in our water pipes between Barnsley and Penistone in 2023. This will be the first time a project like this has been trialled in the UK!
March 2022 - We’re doing our research
Our plan is to put the fibre cables into ‘messenger pipes’, which are made from the same material as our new water pipes. The messenger pipes will protect the fibre cables and make sure they don’t touch the water.
But first things first, we need to make sure this is safe for customers. We’ll look into any possible risks and will iron out any potential problems with the design, technology or processes.
What’s next?
If the project passes the initial research phase, 17km of fibre-optic cables will be laid in our water pipes between Barnsley and Penistone in 2023. This will be the first time a project like this has been trialled in the UK!
That was done by Yorkshire Water; or rather it wasn't - the study report came out a year late, and while it tried to sound positive the trial won't happen.
Combining two industries meant there was a lack of clarity when it came to industry approved standards which meant certification became a challenge. An important aspect of using the clean water network is that anything installed within the network first needs Regulation 31 (Reg 31) approval from the DWI. For this project, approvals were needed for the installation method and the finished installed product. At the time of writing, almost 2 years after the TAWCO project was awarded funding, approval for the finished product remains outstanding and subsequently there is a barrier to adoption until this issue is resolved.
In addition to the enabling technology, alignment of the operational processes of two very disparate industries – from design and construction to ownership and operation, including ‘break-fix’ – presented a significant challenge. TAWCO successfully defined aligned processes and as such has created
In addition to the enabling technology, alignment of the operational processes of two very disparate industries – from design and construction to ownership and operation, including ‘break-fix’ – presented a significant challenge. TAWCO successfully defined aligned processes and as such has created
OK, it was a silly idea, but failing to even spend £5M on an initial trial sounds all to familiar. Fibre in sewer, of course, is a much older technique - you're just supposed to ask first!
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ellendune at 13:44, 12th July 2024 | |
To add to the list of service companies/contacts-
1 - The sewerage and water supply divisions of Thames Water will be two different business units
2 - There will be highway drains (Oxfordshire County Council) as well
3 - In addition to any commercial fibre companies, it is likely that "JANET" (the Joint Academic Network) has a line through here.
4 - I think that I have read somewhere that there's also a culverted watercourse in the mix - step forward the Environment Agency
5 - Then there will also be the railway's own drains & services. I understand the lack (or loss) of these is one the many reasons for the problems and delays with the GW Mainline electrification.
BTW - I believe that moving fibre cables may not be simple or straightforward either.
I do though agree that combined services cable ducting would be a good idea. It's just that we are about 200 years too late now!
1 - The sewerage and water supply divisions of Thames Water will be two different business units
2 - There will be highway drains (Oxfordshire County Council) as well
3 - In addition to any commercial fibre companies, it is likely that "JANET" (the Joint Academic Network) has a line through here.
4 - I think that I have read somewhere that there's also a culverted watercourse in the mix - step forward the Environment Agency
5 - Then there will also be the railway's own drains & services. I understand the lack (or loss) of these is one the many reasons for the problems and delays with the GW Mainline electrification.
BTW - I believe that moving fibre cables may not be simple or straightforward either.
I do though agree that combined services cable ducting would be a good idea. It's just that we are about 200 years too late now!
For sewerage at least the water company are likely to let the main contractor do the work.
Common service ducts are quite normal in Germany.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by eightonedee at 13:02, 12th July 2024 | |
To add to the list of service companies/contacts-
1 - The sewerage and water supply divisions of Thames Water will be two different business units
2 - There will be highway drains (Oxfordshire County Council) as well
3 - In addition to any commercial fibre companies, it is likely that "JANET" (the Joint Academic Network) has a line through here.
4 - I think that I have read somewhere that there's also a culverted watercourse in the mix - step forward the Environment Agency
5 - Then there will also be the railway's own drains & services. I understand the lack (or loss) of these is one the many reasons for the problems and delays with the GW Mainline electrification.
BTW - I believe that moving fibre cables may not be simple or straightforward either.
I do though agree that combined services cable ducting would be a good idea. It's just that we are about 200 years too late now!
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ellendune at 12:14, 12th July 2024 | |
Are the pre Nationalisation public services pipes and cables exempt? I suspect there are quite a few pipes and cables dating back before WW2, which may be abandoned and the ownership is unknown and proving they are abandoned and therefore safe to cut may be a challenge
No but at least there were only 4 possible utility operators (Water Authority, Post office Telephones, Electricity Board, Gas Board) to deal with not 11!
Perhaps there are - and were - more than that, especially if you are doing PR and playing "make the biggest number". If you list utilities as distinct network types, not by owner, you get: gas, electricity, water, foul sewers, road drains, cable TV (that standard location inherited by Virgin Media for fibre), telephone, and then fibre. Functionally, most of these may exist as a local distribution network and trunk connections too, which be operated separately.
But the fibres are unlikely to have been a problem. Last in and closest to the surface, they are easy to reroute on the timescales here. And I doubt they would be in the roadway under the bridge anyway, even long-distance ones.
Both Sewers and Water Mains are Thames Water, Trunk and distribution mains are still with the same organisation so I would expect them to use the same contract. Although Gas Distribution and Gas Transmission are separate I would be extremely surprised if there was a Gas Transmission Main there as there are only about 30 points where the transmission and Distribution networks join in the whole country. Similarly for the electricity transmission network (though there are a few more interfaces).
A long way back in this thread I did say that the best way would have been to drive a service tunnel under the railway and divert all the services through that. If that looked too expensive then I doubt i it does now!
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ChrisB at 10:47, 12th July 2024 | |
Functionally, most of these may exist as a local distribution network and trunk connections too, which be operated separately.
But the fibres are unlikely to have been a problem. Last in and closest to the surface, they are easy to reroute on the timescales here. And I doubt they would be in the roadway under the bridge anyway, even long-distance ones.
But the fibres are unlikely to have been a problem. Last in and closest to the surface, they are easy to reroute on the timescales here. And I doubt they would be in the roadway under the bridge anyway, even long-distance ones.
There are at least 2 trunk fibre networks running under under that bridge as well as a trunk & local water main. The sewer is being rerouted away from the bridge, to pass under the tracks instead as they can't remove/replace it.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by stuving at 09:40, 12th July 2024 | |
Another mess caused by the blind ideological insistence on competition in the provision of public services to solve a problem created by privatisation.
Are the pre Nationalisation public services pipes and cables exempt? I suspect there are quite a few pipes and cables dating back before WW2, which may be abandoned and the ownership is unknown and proving they are abandoned and therefore safe to cut may be a challenge
No but at least there were only 4 possible utility operators (Water Authority, Post office Telephones, Electricity Board, Gas Board) to deal with not 11!
Perhaps there are - and were - more than that, especially if you are doing PR and playing "make the biggest number". If you list utilities as distinct network types, not by owner, you get: gas, electricity, water, foul sewers, road drains, cable TV (that standard location inherited by Virgin Media for fibre), telephone, and then fibre. Functionally, most of these may exist as a local distribution network and trunk connections too, which be operated separately.
But the fibres are unlikely to have been a problem. Last in and closest to the surface, they are easy to reroute on the timescales here. And I doubt they would be in the roadway under the bridge anyway, even long-distance ones.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ellendune at 08:36, 12th July 2024 | |
Another mess caused by the blind ideological insistence on competition in the provision of public services to solve a problem created by privatisation.
Are the pre Nationalisation public services pipes and cables exempt? I suspect there are quite a few pipes and cables dating back before WW2, which may be abandoned and the ownership is unknown and proving they are abandoned and therefore safe to cut may be a challenge
No but at least there were only 4 possible utility operators (Water Authority, Post office Telephones, Electricity Board, Gas Board) to deal with not 11!
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by Electric train at 21:53, 11th July 2024 | |
Note what Network Rail said about "Kier and the 11 different utility providers involved". I can't imagine how there are as many as eleven, even if half of them are fibre operators, but I'm not surprised that coordinating them is difficult. It's probably more difficult than it should be.
You can imagine the meeting (live or Teams) which goes "we've found an old pipe that is is our way, so our work has to be changed and will take a bit longer" - "oh, that means we will have to replan our work, and then schedule a new time (much later) to do that" - "ah, if we have to delay our work that means ..." etc. etc.
The time allowed looks long enough to an outsider, and given the constraints on booking rail closures NR must have allowed as long as they though it could possibly take plus a bit on top. I don't imagine NR, Kier, and these utilities companies are still all best friends.
You can imagine the meeting (live or Teams) which goes "we've found an old pipe that is is our way, so our work has to be changed and will take a bit longer" - "oh, that means we will have to replan our work, and then schedule a new time (much later) to do that" - "ah, if we have to delay our work that means ..." etc. etc.
The time allowed looks long enough to an outsider, and given the constraints on booking rail closures NR must have allowed as long as they though it could possibly take plus a bit on top. I don't imagine NR, Kier, and these utilities companies are still all best friends.
Another mess caused by the blind ideological insistence on competition in the provision of public services to solve a problem created by privatisation.
Are the pre Nationalisation public services pipes and cables exempt? I suspect there are quite a few pipes and cables dating back before WW2, which may be abandoned and the ownership is unknown and proving they are abandoned and therefore safe to cut may be a challenge
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ellendune at 20:45, 11th July 2024 | |
Note what Network Rail said about "Kier and the 11 different utility providers involved". I can't imagine how there are as many as eleven, even if half of them are fibre operators, but I'm not surprised that coordinating them is difficult. It's probably more difficult than it should be.
You can imagine the meeting (live or Teams) which goes "we've found an old pipe that is is our way, so our work has to be changed and will take a bit longer" - "oh, that means we will have to replan our work, and then schedule a new time (much later) to do that" - "ah, if we have to delay our work that means ..." etc. etc.
The time allowed looks long enough to an outsider, and given the constraints on booking rail closures NR must have allowed as long as they though it could possibly take plus a bit on top. I don't imagine NR, Kier, and these utilities companies are still all best friends.
You can imagine the meeting (live or Teams) which goes "we've found an old pipe that is is our way, so our work has to be changed and will take a bit longer" - "oh, that means we will have to replan our work, and then schedule a new time (much later) to do that" - "ah, if we have to delay our work that means ..." etc. etc.
The time allowed looks long enough to an outsider, and given the constraints on booking rail closures NR must have allowed as long as they though it could possibly take plus a bit on top. I don't imagine NR, Kier, and these utilities companies are still all best friends.
Another mess caused by the blind ideological insistence on competition in the provision of public services to solve a problem created by privatisation.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ChrisB at 20:30, 11th July 2024 | |
If the reason(s) are the same for the dates selected to replace said bridge - BMW holiday shutdown - going forward, then the next opportunity that isn't going to upset BMW too is.....Christmas/New Year holiday...
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by stuving at 19:46, 11th July 2024 | |
I don't imagine NR, Kier, and these utilities companies are still all best friends.
Add the various councils, bus operators, road users, et al. This is OCC:
Statement in response to Network Rail's announcement about Botley Road
Botley Road 11 July 2024
Oxfordshire County Council is extremely frustrated that Network Rail is postponing the replacement of Botley railway bridge at the end of this month and is unable to reopen Botley Road in October as a result. The council is in discussion with Network Rail to understand the implications of this.
Residents and businesses have shown incredible patience with more than a year of disruption to their lives because of this project, which has already had its timetable altered twice before and seen its closure dates extended. We have expressed our deep dissatisfaction to Network Rail and to the Department for Transport about this.
The launch of the council’s traffic filters trial planned to start in November is now in question, with various options being considered as a result. The trial aims to tackle Oxford’s chronic congestion problems and dramatically improve bus journey times. We are calling on and working with Network Rail to find an acceptable solution to this situation quickly.
The council remains incredibly supportive of improvements to the rail station for Oxford with improved capacity for passengers and freight, which is vital for the development of projects such as East West Rail.
In the meantime, we will continue to do all we can to work with partners to minimise the impact on the rest of the road network.
Botley Road 11 July 2024
Oxfordshire County Council is extremely frustrated that Network Rail is postponing the replacement of Botley railway bridge at the end of this month and is unable to reopen Botley Road in October as a result. The council is in discussion with Network Rail to understand the implications of this.
Residents and businesses have shown incredible patience with more than a year of disruption to their lives because of this project, which has already had its timetable altered twice before and seen its closure dates extended. We have expressed our deep dissatisfaction to Network Rail and to the Department for Transport about this.
The launch of the council’s traffic filters trial planned to start in November is now in question, with various options being considered as a result. The trial aims to tackle Oxford’s chronic congestion problems and dramatically improve bus journey times. We are calling on and working with Network Rail to find an acceptable solution to this situation quickly.
The council remains incredibly supportive of improvements to the rail station for Oxford with improved capacity for passengers and freight, which is vital for the development of projects such as East West Rail.
In the meantime, we will continue to do all we can to work with partners to minimise the impact on the rest of the road network.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by stuving at 19:40, 11th July 2024 | |
Note what Network Rail said about "Kier and the 11 different utility providers involved". I can't imagine how there are as many as eleven, even if half of them are fibre operators, but I'm not surprised that coordinating them is difficult. It's probably more difficult than it should be.
You can imagine the meeting (live or Teams) which goes "we've found an old pipe that is is our way, so our work has to be changed and will take a bit longer" - "oh, that means we will have to replan our work, and then schedule a new time (much later) to do that" - "ah, if we have to delay our work that means ..." etc. etc.
The time allowed looks long enough to an outsider, and given the constraints on booking rail closures NR must have allowed as long as they though it could possibly take plus a bit on top. I don't imagine NR, Kier, and these utilities companies are still all best friends.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by eightonedee at 18:54, 11th July 2024 | |
Lack of records for utilities under a road is hardly the fault of network Rail though, is it? Surely the highway authority is at fault here?
Nope!
It is the utility companies in question. Their problem is that they are successors to (often) a succession of predecessor suppliers - local gas, water and electric companies, local authorities (which might have been re-organised or subject to boundary changes during the period they were responsible for the utility supply in question) and statutory authorities following nationalisation in the 20th century. Many of these had patchy/poor/non-existent standards of record keeping.
Added to this, in the process of consolidating records and in making them electronic, many have been mislaid.
The highway authorities might have had records of consents given to the undertakers in question since , but again they have been reorganised several times, and highway responsibility passed from second-tier (district or borough) to first tier authorities in 1974.
Sadly, there are very good excuses for external authorities not having comprehensive records of the location of utility services.
I understand that similar problems relating to the railway's own infrastructure bedevil rail works.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ChrisB at 14:10, 11th July 2024 | |
Lack of records for utilities under a road is hardly the fault of network Rail though, is it? Surely the highway authority is at fault here?
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by eightonedee at 12:50, 11th July 2024 | |
Sadly, this seems to be a reliable way of judging if a project is going badly.
Compare the regular updates on the Reading Station rebuilding (is this already over 10 years ago!) or the Dawlish seawall works with the diminishing amount of information on the GW Main Line electrification as it "progressed", the fall off in media content from Crossrail as it's progress slipped and from East West Rail with the delay in finalising the route from Bedford to Cambridge. Only HS2 seems to continue to produce material that rises above my information horizon notwithstanding its problems - perhaps in an attempt to gain support for reinstating the next stages, or they have a PR agency that knows how to make the most of some impressive-looking engineering emerging along its route?
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ray951 at 12:15, 11th July 2024 | |
The project to replace Botley Road Bridge seems to have gone very quiet.
According to NR the bridge is due to be replaced between July 27 and July 31st 2024, and that is less than 3 weeks away. https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/western/oxfordshire/botley-road-bridge-replacement/
I have seen no advertising around replacement bus services and GWR seem to be running a normal train service and there is no mention of engineering works between those dates on their website. https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/planned-engineering.
So can we assume that this project is running late? And if it is has anyone seen any mention of alternative dates?
And what is the impact on the opening of Botley Road which is supposed to happen in October 2024?
According to NR the bridge is due to be replaced between July 27 and July 31st 2024, and that is less than 3 weeks away. https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/western/oxfordshire/botley-road-bridge-replacement/
I have seen no advertising around replacement bus services and GWR seem to be running a normal train service and there is no mention of engineering works between those dates on their website. https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/planned-engineering.
So can we assume that this project is running late? And if it is has anyone seen any mention of alternative dates?
And what is the impact on the opening of Botley Road which is supposed to happen in October 2024?
Well it looks like my hunch was correct in that the project is running late.
That was just based on, as Stuving has pointed out, no recent updates or PR about the new bridge about to be put in place plus having seen the site a couple of weeks ago I couldn't see how it could possibly be ready.
If I was a resident of Oxford, Oxfordshire County Council or Oxford City Council I would be annoyed with NR as this will be the 2nd delay to the project and will presumably increase the cost of the project and there is still no end to the project in sight. To me it looks like poor project management both in terms of the delays and also the communication with stakeholders given they can't actually give a date for when the bridge will be replaced or the project will end.
Will this have an impact on the opening of EWR?
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by stuving at 12:07, 11th July 2024 | |
Network Rail's own press release is here:
Oxford’s major rail and road improvement project is progressing but more time is needed before Botley Road can reopen
Network Rail has confirmed that significant progress is being made on the multi-million-pound programme to upgrade Oxford Station, enhance the railway infrastructure in the area and improve the local transport network, however more time is required to complete the highly complex utility diversion works including mains water and sewer pipes under Botley Road.
The replacement of the railway bridge, which was scheduled to take place at end of this month, has been postponed as, despite concerted effort by all organisations involved, the work to divert the complex layout of utility pipes and cables under the road, including the sewer system, cannot be completed in time. Unfortunately as a result Botley Road, which has been closed under the rail bridge since April 2023, will not now reopen in October as planned. Network Rail and its contractor, Kier, are working with the local authorities to agree the best way forward to complete the project and minimise impact on the city.
Anna Holbrook, industry programme director at Network Rail said: “Although our work is progressing well on most aspects of this major programme, including the construction of the new platform on the western side of the station, the bridge replacement has unfortunately had to be postponed as the work to divert the complex layout of utility pipes and cables under the road, including the sewer system, will not be ready in time. We have informed the councils that Botley Road will not now be able to be reopened in October. We know how important Botley Road is to Oxford and apologise to local residents and businesses for the ongoing inconvenience. We are working out the best way forward and will continue to engage with the local community as our plans develop.”
Kier and the 11 different utility providers involved continue to make progress on diverting the large number of pipes and cables, including the water main and sewer, which need to be completed before the bridge can be replaced. Working on this outdated maze of pipes and cables spread out below the highway, in a severely constrained space, with poor ground conditions and significant water levels, continues to make this work very challenging.
Once fully complete, the upgrades will result in a bigger and better station, more rail services for passengers and an improved road network near Oxford station with safer junctions, and more space for cyclists and pedestrians through the addition of a four-metre cycle/footway on each side of the main road.
Network Rail has confirmed that significant progress is being made on the multi-million-pound programme to upgrade Oxford Station, enhance the railway infrastructure in the area and improve the local transport network, however more time is required to complete the highly complex utility diversion works including mains water and sewer pipes under Botley Road.
The replacement of the railway bridge, which was scheduled to take place at end of this month, has been postponed as, despite concerted effort by all organisations involved, the work to divert the complex layout of utility pipes and cables under the road, including the sewer system, cannot be completed in time. Unfortunately as a result Botley Road, which has been closed under the rail bridge since April 2023, will not now reopen in October as planned. Network Rail and its contractor, Kier, are working with the local authorities to agree the best way forward to complete the project and minimise impact on the city.
Anna Holbrook, industry programme director at Network Rail said: “Although our work is progressing well on most aspects of this major programme, including the construction of the new platform on the western side of the station, the bridge replacement has unfortunately had to be postponed as the work to divert the complex layout of utility pipes and cables under the road, including the sewer system, will not be ready in time. We have informed the councils that Botley Road will not now be able to be reopened in October. We know how important Botley Road is to Oxford and apologise to local residents and businesses for the ongoing inconvenience. We are working out the best way forward and will continue to engage with the local community as our plans develop.”
Kier and the 11 different utility providers involved continue to make progress on diverting the large number of pipes and cables, including the water main and sewer, which need to be completed before the bridge can be replaced. Working on this outdated maze of pipes and cables spread out below the highway, in a severely constrained space, with poor ground conditions and significant water levels, continues to make this work very challenging.
Once fully complete, the upgrades will result in a bigger and better station, more rail services for passengers and an improved road network near Oxford station with safer junctions, and more space for cyclists and pedestrians through the addition of a four-metre cycle/footway on each side of the main road.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by stuving at 11:41, 11th July 2024 | |
I have found some updates on the station work, under the heading Oxfordshire Connect. However, I've only seen a few uninformative comments about the bridge. However, its posponement will be announced today - here's a pre-announcement:
Botley Road bridge installation postponed
You will no doubt be disappointed to learn that we have had to postpone the replacement of Botley Road railway bridge that was planned for the end of July.
As you're probably aware, we’ve been working to divert the complex layout of utility pipes and cables under the road, including the sewer system, to make the necessary space for the new bridge layout.
Working on this outdated maze of pipes and cables spread out below the highway, in a severely constrained space, with poor ground conditions and high water levels, has presented significant engineering challenges.
Unfortunately, despite concerted effort by all organisations involved, the work can’t be completed in time to tie in with our planned closure of the railway at the end of this month...
You will no doubt be disappointed to learn that we have had to postpone the replacement of Botley Road railway bridge that was planned for the end of July.
As you're probably aware, we’ve been working to divert the complex layout of utility pipes and cables under the road, including the sewer system, to make the necessary space for the new bridge layout.
Working on this outdated maze of pipes and cables spread out below the highway, in a severely constrained space, with poor ground conditions and high water levels, has presented significant engineering challenges.
Unfortunately, despite concerted effort by all organisations involved, the work can’t be completed in time to tie in with our planned closure of the railway at the end of this month...
There is a lot more detail on that page, including links to GWR travel information - but that was already in place, as we know.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by Mark A at 08:56, 11th July 2024 | |
Vehicle jammed in the Botley Road pedestrian route a few days ago too. Presumably an attempt at a short cut.
Mark
https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/24435787.oxford-bmw-car-stuck-botley-road-pedestrian-walkway/
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by stuving at 22:59, 10th July 2024 | |
No one is saying that the extra platform will be completed/operational. Just that the bridge is swapped out & replaced & the lines currently present put back (with a TSO presumably?)
Other bridges have been done with a Friday night - Monday morning closure.
Other bridges have been done with a Friday night - Monday morning closure.
Two days might do for a two-track span plonked onto the old abutments. But this one is for four existing tracks, and then two more (though I've never been sure whether these would be separate structures). And it will sit on new abutments built inside the existing embankments. So you'd expect that to take longer.
And if two days would be enough, why was it described by NR as needing a five-day closure only four months ago? The lack of any update for that is itself s a bit surprising.
But there's a further puzzle: the lack of progress reports, from NR, Kier, or others, whether photos, videos, or just boastful PR words. Presumably the bridge deck is being fabricated nearby if it's a single rigid structure; if not then installing it piece by piece will take even longer. And building the new abutments: I have no idea how that's being done, so it would be interesting - and not just to me I'm sure - to see a few pictures. Unless it's all been on TikTok and Instagram ...
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ray951 at 21:48, 10th July 2024 | |
The project to replace Botley Road Bridge seems to have gone very quiet.
According to NR the bridge is due to be replaced between July 27 and July 31st 2024, and that is less than 3 weeks away. https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/western/oxfordshire/botley-road-bridge-replacement/
I have seen no advertising around replacement bus services and GWR seem to be running a normal train service and there is no mention of engineering works between those dates on their website. https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/planned-engineering.
So can we assume that this project is running late? And if it is has anyone seen any mention of alternative dates?
And what is the impact on the opening of Botley Road which is supposed to happen in October 2024?
According to NR the bridge is due to be replaced between July 27 and July 31st 2024, and that is less than 3 weeks away. https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/western/oxfordshire/botley-road-bridge-replacement/
I have seen no advertising around replacement bus services and GWR seem to be running a normal train service and there is no mention of engineering works between those dates on their website. https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/planned-engineering.
So can we assume that this project is running late? And if it is has anyone seen any mention of alternative dates?
And what is the impact on the opening of Botley Road which is supposed to happen in October 2024?
There's plenty of mention of it on that GWR page including:
Oxford area - Saturday 27th to Wednesday 31st July
Track renewal work will affect train services between Oxford and Banbury, plus trains between Oxford and Didcot Parkway on the weekend of 27/28 July.
Replacement buses are planned between:
Oxford and Banbury (on all dates)
Oxford and Didcot Parkway (weekend of 27/28 July only)
In addition all the replacement/amended services are loaded into the journey planners and realtimetrains.
Anyone good to see the project is still on track (no pun intended).
Could trains be running on the southbound (up) tracks earlier than the northbound (down) tracks because they might be laying the trackwork into what what will be platform 5 and that will be from the down track. Note that the points for access to Platform 5 from south of the station are already in place.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ChrisB at 21:25, 10th July 2024 | |
Sorry, yes. The RRS is between Banbury & Bicester Village
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ellendune at 21:24, 10th July 2024 | |
The Oxford-Banbury RRS is to do with other unconnected works in the Aynho junction area as there is a total block between Banbury & Bicester Village.
I am a bit confused here. The only way between Banbury and Bicester Village is to reverse at Oxford or the Junction east of Bicester. Do you mean Bicester North? | Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ChrisB at 21:11, 10th July 2024 | |
No one is saying that the extra platform will be completed/operational. Just that the bridge is swapped out & replaced & the lines currently present put back (with a TSO presumably?)
Other bridges have been done with a Friday night - Monday morning closure.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by stuving at 17:36, 10th July 2024 | |
It does seem that the actual bridge replacement is going in over the weekend, as trains appear to run again from Monday in a southbound direction.
The Oxford-Banbury RRS is to do with other unconnected works in the Aynho junction area as there is a total block between Banbury & Bicester Village.
The Oxford-Banbury RRS is to do with other unconnected works in the Aynho junction area as there is a total block between Banbury & Bicester Village.
That is how it looks, but can it be right? Most of the latest information (including the EAS) is dated several month ago, and relates to a 5-day blockade for the bridge replacement. Doing that civils work, with new track, and running trains after just two days does not sound very likely. And the EAS says the lines south to Appleford are closed until Thursday, while GWR say they are running trains over that line from Monday. In an age of wall-to-wall online news, it's all rather puzzling!
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ChrisB at 17:24, 10th July 2024 | |
It does seem that the actual bridge replacement is going in over the weekend, as trains appear to run again from Monday in a southbound direction.
The Oxford-Banbury RRS is to do with other unconnected works in the Aynho junction area as there is a total block between Banbury & Bicester Village.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by IndustryInsider at 16:03, 10th July 2024 | |
The project to replace Botley Road Bridge seems to have gone very quiet.
According to NR the bridge is due to be replaced between July 27 and July 31st 2024, and that is less than 3 weeks away. https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/western/oxfordshire/botley-road-bridge-replacement/
I have seen no advertising around replacement bus services and GWR seem to be running a normal train service and there is no mention of engineering works between those dates on their website. https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/planned-engineering.
So can we assume that this project is running late? And if it is has anyone seen any mention of alternative dates?
And what is the impact on the opening of Botley Road which is supposed to happen in October 2024?
According to NR the bridge is due to be replaced between July 27 and July 31st 2024, and that is less than 3 weeks away. https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/western/oxfordshire/botley-road-bridge-replacement/
I have seen no advertising around replacement bus services and GWR seem to be running a normal train service and there is no mention of engineering works between those dates on their website. https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/planned-engineering.
So can we assume that this project is running late? And if it is has anyone seen any mention of alternative dates?
And what is the impact on the opening of Botley Road which is supposed to happen in October 2024?
There's plenty of mention of it on that GWR page including:
Oxford area - Saturday 27th to Wednesday 31st July
Track renewal work will affect train services between Oxford and Banbury, plus trains between Oxford and Didcot Parkway on the weekend of 27/28 July.
Replacement buses are planned between:
Oxford and Banbury (on all dates)
Oxford and Didcot Parkway (weekend of 27/28 July only)
In addition all the replacement/amended services are loaded into the journey planners and realtimetrains.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ray951 at 13:07, 10th July 2024 | |
The project to replace Botley Road Bridge seems to have gone very quiet.
According to NR the bridge is due to be replaced between July 27 and July 31st 2024, and that is less than 3 weeks away. https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/western/oxfordshire/botley-road-bridge-replacement/
I have seen no advertising around replacement bus services and GWR seem to be running a normal train service and there is no mention of engineering works between those dates on their website. https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/planned-engineering.
So can we assume that this project is running late? And if it is has anyone seen any mention of alternative dates?
And what is the impact on the opening of Botley Road which is supposed to happen in October 2024?
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by Mark A at 09:19, 11th January 2024 | |
It'll be history now, but, odd, the video, those two blue discharge pipes leading from who knows what submersible pumps beneath the surface, discharging water... back into the flood.
Mark
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by IndustryInsider at 19:50, 10th January 2024 | |
I don’t think so. The flooding seemed to coincide with the Xmas/New Year shutdown. The water magically disappeared, sooner than flooding on roads in the nearby vicinity, when the workers returned. So perhaps the pumps had been switched off during the shutdown?
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by CyclingSid at 18:55, 10th January 2024 | |
I missed this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-oxfordshire-67896885
Will this put it back another month?
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by Noggin at 18:08, 4th January 2024 | |
One of the best bits of professional advice I received was that if you see a flat piece of ground, ask yourself who flattened it, when and how - because it tends not to happen of its own accord and goodness knows what can lurk beneath.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ellendune at 12:03, 4th January 2024 | |
Given that the builders gave the dip beneath Botley rail bridge a brick invert presumably to hold back the groundwater, and the dip still originally needed a steam-powered pump to drain it, it's surprising in a way that the presence of the brick invert faded from memory to the extent that it had to be rediscovered.
Hindsight is the only perfect science. So the present station opened in 1852 that's over 170 years ago, or over 5 generations. Do you think you are being optimistic about what people might be expected to be remembered if there are no records?
Believe me you can do all the desk studies, reviews of old records, site investigations you like and you will still find surprises when you dig underground. Remember in this case it is almost certain that they could not dig extensive trial holes to locate services - especially those that were not on records. Perhaps there was once an old drawing with this culvert on it or perhaps it was what we used to call 'sort out on site' with no design drawing ever made.
I have seen drawings which told me detailed construction of a particular tunnelled culvert and even the date (to the day) each section was built, but these drawings are rare and if they did exist are usually lost or thrown away at some point in the past. I have also seen what were thought to be record drawings that did not say whether the proposal was ever built and some did not even identify where they were.
A famous tunnelling engineer was once asked what the ideal site investigation was for a tunnel - his replay was to construct a tunnel along the route of the proposed tunnel at twice the diameter!
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by Mark A at 09:17, 4th January 2024 | |
Seems weird that they discovered new problems as they went along. I mean, it's all above ground and easily inspectable before starting, no?
-> actually I've just seen that the problem was that they discovered an arch underground......
-> actually I've just seen that the problem was that they discovered an arch underground......
It's a lovely illustration of the value of record keeping for underground structures, and the ability of major components to fade from memory once they're removed from the day to day narrative. Given that the builders gave the dip beneath Botley rail bridge a brick invert presumably to hold back the groundwater, and the dip still originally needed a steam-powered pump to drain it, it's surprising in a way that the presence of the brick invert faded from memory to the extent that it had to be rediscovered.
Mark
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by Rostock0 at 19:04, 3rd January 2024 | |
Seems weird that they discovered new problems as they went along. I mean, it's all above ground and easily inspectable before starting, no?
-> actually I've just seen that the problem was that they discovered an arch underground......
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ChrisB at 20:18, 19th September 2023 | |
so would I, but zero mention of this. Surprisingly, as they really needed a softener for that news. The West Oxford traders are really suffering
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by IndustryInsider at 20:03, 19th September 2023 | |
I’d expect 24/7 working to cease as a result.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ChrisB at 19:47, 19th September 2023 | |
What's not at all clear is whether, having extended the work by over 6 months, there is need to work 24/7 beyond the original end date this year of end October. I can't believe that they've got *that* far behind.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ray951 at 11:23, 19th September 2023 | |
Network Rail saying the Botley Road bridge will not reopen this winter.
NR said "This project is extremely complex and has been made even more challenging by the extent of the brick arch underneath the road. We’ve explored a number of options to deliver the works which included moving to working around the clock, but unfortunately with needing the infrastructure to be ready by the end of next year we have no choice but to keep the road closed until October 2024. "
https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/network-rail-announces-continuation-of-botley-road-closure-after-unique-challenges-delayed-the-work-this-summer
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by Mark A at 14:00, 3rd August 2023 | |
That deepened road bridge is going to need a reliable set of pumps for when the Isis tops her banks.
I think the dip under the existing bridge is drained by a pump and if that's always been the case it's a shame that exactly what was the pump provision in the early days of the line will be something lost to time.
Ah, a map, surveyed 1876, and next to the bridge, a 'Pump room'.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/231278895
The pump room persists on later 25" mapping, though it might have shrunk. Works to replace the Botley Road rail bridge will expose and remove elements of these early installations.
Ah, 'Tales of the unexpected' emerged during the first half of July....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-66133325
Now wondering what it is they're discovering. Not really much detail in that BBC item, which marks something different to the photos that appear elsewhere. For starters, if the dip beneath the bridge is below the water table, understandable to floor it out with an invert perhaps if only to ease the work if they drained it using something steam-driven.
Mark
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by Red Squirrel at 16:14, 10th June 2023 | |
Above two posts split from Nuneham Bridge thread and merged here
| Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure Posted by paul7575 at 17:44, 9th June 2023 | |
*From Saturday 29 July until the early hours of Monday 7 August Network Rail will be working to upgrade the track just north of Oxford Station - installing new high speed crossovers. To the south of the station, Osney Lane footbridge will be modified, moving one of the piers to make way for track layout changes. Work will also be carried out to adjust the coping stones on platforms inside the station.
Which of the piers are to be moved and where to? None of them seem to be intruding far into operational railway land at the moment.
Not much detail that I can find yet, but the track change extent is shown at the bottom of this drawing:
https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/twao-oxford-corridor-phase-2/Environmental%20Statement/Volume%203%20-%20Book%20of%20figures/Ch%2002%20-%20Figure%202.1%20-%20Scheme%20Layout%20and%20Location.pdf
But is this the best place to discuss it, or should the question be moved to the main Oxford station thread?
Paul
| Re: Black Bridge, Nuneham: southern abutment failure Posted by ellendune at 14:15, 9th June 2023 | |
*From Saturday 29 July until the early hours of Monday 7 August Network Rail will be working to upgrade the track just north of Oxford Station - installing new high speed crossovers. To the south of the station, Osney Lane footbridge will be modified, moving one of the piers to make way for track layout changes. Work will also be carried out to adjust the coping stones on platforms inside the station.
[/quote]Which of the piers are to be moved and where to? None of them seem to be intruding far into operational railway land at the moment.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ChrisB at 17:00, 9th March 2023 | |
NR have another drop-in session at West Oxford Community Centre (further down Botley Road on the right going away from the station) on Tuesday from 1 till 4pm
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ray951 at 16:39, 9th March 2023 | |
Yep, due to be demolished any day now
I notice today that they have started to demolish the Youth Hostel.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ChrisB at 10:54, 2nd March 2023 | |
More concern for rail users are the following rail closure dates, mentioned in the NR press release in one of those limks you refer to -
29 July to 6 August 2023 – Track work and prep work for new platform – rail services impacted. Alternative travel arrangements and advice will be publicised in advance
and
August 2024 – Four-day rail closure for bridge replacement.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by stuving at 10:30, 2nd March 2023 | |
Now reported by Network Rail that Botley Road will be closed from 11th April until October.
This is Oxfordshire's announcement about the work, which contains links to other sources.
- 11 April 2023 to the end of October 2023: Botley Road closure for through traffic for utility diversion work.
- March 2024 - October 2024: Botley Road closed to through traffic for highway work.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ChrisB at 10:23, 2nd March 2023 | |
Yep, due to be demolished any day now
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ray951 at 10:13, 2nd March 2023 | |
Now reported by Network Rail that Botley Road will be closed from 11th April until October.
I notice this morning that they have started wrapping the old Youth Hostel in plastic presumably to stop debris/dust etc falling onto the surrounding area.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ChrisB at 15:17, 10th December 2022 | |
There's a report due to go into the City Council about the revision on December 14....
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by stuving at 10:53, 10th December 2022 | |
First report said that NR weren’t ready to start work on January 9th, further reports said that they were working to reduce the closure time.
Having issued the contract to Keir, it seems as it is they that aren’t ready? And as it’s Keir, presumably not caught yp in the RMT NR disruption?
Having issued the contract to Keir, it seems as it is they that aren’t ready? And as it’s Keir, presumably not caught yp in the RMT NR disruption?
NR have put a different slant on this:
Botley Road closure update
Replacing the bridge over Botley Road to facilitate a new platform, western entrance and road improvements is an incredibly complex project, which needs to be completed by the end of 2024 in time for the start of East West Rail services.
With it not only being vital for local transport provision, there are also multiple key utility services connecting to west of the city running both beneath the road and over the top of the bridge. So there are a number of significant challenges to overcome before work on the bridge can start.
We are working with partners to refine our plans for the delivery of the works to enhance the station and do not now need to start the full closure of Botley Road in January.
Part of this review is looking at how to reduce the impact of our work on the local community. Further details will be confirmed in the coming weeks.
Replacing the bridge over Botley Road to facilitate a new platform, western entrance and road improvements is an incredibly complex project, which needs to be completed by the end of 2024 in time for the start of East West Rail services.
With it not only being vital for local transport provision, there are also multiple key utility services connecting to west of the city running both beneath the road and over the top of the bridge. So there are a number of significant challenges to overcome before work on the bridge can start.
We are working with partners to refine our plans for the delivery of the works to enhance the station and do not now need to start the full closure of Botley Road in January.
Part of this review is looking at how to reduce the impact of our work on the local community. Further details will be confirmed in the coming weeks.
Kier have been digging holes, to find out what's where, for a couple of weeks now. They have also been doing their own thinking about how best to organise the work. So I'd guess they have said to NR not only "we need more time for preparation", but also "we don't need such a long road closure if we do it this way...".
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ChrisB at 10:26, 10th December 2022 | |
First report said that NR weren’t ready to start work on January 9th, further reports said that they were working to reduce the closure time.
Having issued the contract to Keir, it seems as it is they that aren’t ready? And as it’s Keir, presumably not caught yp in the RMT NR disruption?
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by Rostock0 at 08:07, 10th December 2022 | |
The Botley Road closure was supposed to start on January 9th, but that's been delayed now.
| Re: Oxford station parking Posted by alan_s at 16:22, 17th November 2022 | |
You need to pay online using the app or by phone quoting the car park code number. As I understand it is like Bristol Parkway and there are two codes. If you pay using the publicly available code it is very expensive £30. However once you are on the platform there is a dot matrix sign with another code which if you use that you get to pay the lower amount £6.70. It is to try and ensure the car park is for rail users only.
Aha, great stuff, thanks for the confirmation.I don't think Bristol parkway has a separate code now, it's just one high price!!
I remember when the app came out it was billed as the cheapest way to pay, but not now - they even add a 20p admin fee so it costs more than using the ticket machine!! But that's not a discussion for here!
| Re: Oxford station parking Posted by didcotdean at 15:24, 17th November 2022 | |
The car park which used at one time to be heaving hardly manages to be a third full these days, at least when I have passed by it on the train. Reduction in commuting plus Oxford Parkway I guess.
| Re: Oxford station parking Posted by IndustryInsider at 11:43, 17th November 2022 | |
And that code hasn’t changed since introduction!
So anyone who has travelled from there likely knows this code, and can’t be keeping many out these days. I’m almost minded to post it here, in ordee that it might dinally get changed.
So anyone who has travelled from there likely knows this code, and can’t be keeping many out these days. I’m almost minded to post it here, in ordee that it might dinally get changed.
I think it changed daily after introduction, but stopped changing some time ago. It is now considered so unlikely to change that a semi-fixed display also quotes the number as well as the digital display.
| Re: Oxford station parking Posted by ChrisB at 08:41, 17th November 2022 | |
And that code hasn’t changed since introduction!
So anyone who has travelled from there likely knows this code, and can’t be keeping many out these days. I’m almost minded to post it here, in ordee that it might dinally get changed.
| Re: Oxford station parking Posted by ellendune at 08:17, 17th November 2022 | |
Hi there
I wonder if someone can tell me how much the car park is please?
If I search on the APCOA app I can find the station but it does say "see platform for discount" so I assume there is a location code on posters beyond the ticket gates that gives a different price.
The app seems to quote about 30 quid per day, but national rail and GWR website suggest 6.70 !
Parking Saturday to Sunday if this makes a difference.
Cheers
Alan
I wonder if someone can tell me how much the car park is please?
If I search on the APCOA app I can find the station but it does say "see platform for discount" so I assume there is a location code on posters beyond the ticket gates that gives a different price.
The app seems to quote about 30 quid per day, but national rail and GWR website suggest 6.70 !
Parking Saturday to Sunday if this makes a difference.
Cheers
Alan
You need to pay online using the app or by phone quoting the car park code number. As I understand it is like Bristol Parkway and there are two codes. If you pay using the publicly available code it is very expensive £30. However once you are on the platform there is a dot matrix sign with another code which if you use that you get to pay the lower amount £6.70. It is to try and ensure the car park is for rail users only.
| Oxford station parking Posted by alan_s at 07:50, 17th November 2022 | |
Hi there
I wonder if someone can tell me how much the car park is please?
If I search on the APCOA app I can find the station but it does say "see platform for discount" so I assume there is a location code on posters beyond the ticket gates that gives a different price.
The app seems to quote about 30 quid per day, but national rail and GWR website suggest 6.70 !
Parking Saturday to Sunday if this makes a difference.
Cheers
Alan
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ChrisB at 11:50, 8th November 2022 | |
There are updates from both the Coiunty Council Highways & NR this morning
From OCC
The updated part
The council recognises that there would be challenges implementing the six trial traffic filters during the works for the replacement of the rail bridge and the closure of Botley Road as a result. If the council’s cabinet agrees to implement the trial filters, there would be a further recommendation that this should happen after the Botley Road reopens.
And NR
Community drop-in event – Thursday 17 November
The next community drop-in event is due to be held on afternoon of Thursday 17 November at the West Oxford Community Centre on Botley Road.
Members of the project team will be in the Mary Town Room between 13:00 and 17:00.
The next community drop-in event is due to be held on afternoon of Thursday 17 November at the West Oxford Community Centre on Botley Road.
Members of the project team will be in the Mary Town Room between 13:00 and 17:00.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by Red Squirrel at 12:14, 7th November 2022 | |
I must admit I'm surprised Oxford City Council are prepared to allow such a long full closure of Botley Road to cars. They cycle and footpath routes are going to be very busy!
Oxford City Council probably asked for it to be as long as possible. No-one hates their residents more than Oxford City Council. I think the secretary of state for transport ought to step in here, though. Whatever the benefits are delivered by the railway improvements cannot possibly be worth the devastation caused by closing the only road into Oxford from the west for a year.
Interesting to contrast these two comments. Although IndustryInsider expresses surprise at the length of the closure, they are presumably open to the possibility that the authorities have considered all the options and decided that this is the least worst. Rostock0 on the other hand seems to think they are actively trying to antagonise the people who vote for them.
Which is more likely?
Oxford City Council probably asked for it to be as long as possible.
My thoughts also. If they are anything like Bristol City Council then nothing would surprise me at all. I like going to Oxford for work but given the impending disruption that this will cause I am glad I don't live there!Dave
My own experience dealing with Bristol City Council (councillors and officers) is that they have an extremely difficult balancing act to perform, on a shoestring budget. I don't envy them. They are very rarely able to make a simple choice between a good and a bad option; they almost always have to choose between a range of options all of which are bad for someone. And they can't just keep things as they are: populations grow, usage and travel patterns change, infrastructure wears out and local and central policies shift for one reason or another.
It takes time and effort to respond to the consultations they put out before starting projects like these, but it's probably the best way to make your voice heard if you genuinely think a mistake is being made. Too late for this scheme though!
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by IndustryInsider at 09:17, 7th November 2022 | |
The City Council is planning authority, which deals with the bridge but has little to do with the road underneath it. That belongs to the County, as the local Highway Authority. I'm not sure whether they will be doing some rebuilding of Botley Road outside Network Rail's own project…
There will be quite a lot of work done on Osney Bridge (on Botley Road over the Thames) as some temporary repairs have been in place for a year or so.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by CyclingSid at 07:14, 7th November 2022 | |
the Active Travel issues (by providing new pedestrian and cycle ways)
I assume that there will be more cyclists using the old Gas Works bridge as the Grandpont bridge will probably still be closed.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by Richard Fairhurst at 19:18, 6th November 2022 | |
The bridge needs replacing regardless of the station works. It's sufficiently low that the bus companies need a special fleet of low-profile double-deckers to fit through it, it's unpleasant for pedestrians and downright lethal for cyclists.
The road won't be "closed", of course, just closed to motor traffic. Pedestrians can still get through and so can cyclists (if they dismount). It might make a few people think twice about driving into Oxford, and as a resident of an Oxfordshire town I know there are plenty of people who could take the direct bus, Park & Ride, or train, but don't. There will be those for whom it's a genuine inconvenience, of course, but I believe the improvements to the bridge for non-private car users - and to the railway, of course - will be worth it in the round.
(Oxford is getting a massive new fleet of electric buses in a couple of years... I presume these will be too tall to fit under the old bridge?)
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by stuving at 15:13, 6th November 2022 | |
Oxford City Council probably asked for it to be as long as possible.
My thoughts also. If they are anything like Bristol City Council then nothing would surprise me at all. I like going to Oxford for work but given the impending disruption that this will cause I am glad I don't live there!Dave
The City Council is planning authority, which deals with the bridge but has little to do with the road underneath it. That belongs to the County, as the local Highway Authority. I'm not sure whether they will be doing some rebuilding of Botley Road outside Network Rail's own project, but they are in any case closely involved with that:
Oxfordshire County Council, as the local Highway Authority, is a key stakeholder in this project. The scope of the project includes highway works in addition to railway works. Whilst the developer Network Rail proposes to replace its existing rail bridges over Botley Road, it will also address:
the vehicle headroom issues below the bridges (by lowering Botley Road)
the historic local flooding incidents (by improving the drainage provisions)
the Active Travel issues (by providing new pedestrian and cycle ways)
The County Council has supported this project to date, with oversight, and is included in the current Detailed Design stage and Traffic Management Planning for Network Rail’s overall delivery process.
the vehicle headroom issues below the bridges (by lowering Botley Road)
the historic local flooding incidents (by improving the drainage provisions)
the Active Travel issues (by providing new pedestrian and cycle ways)
The County Council has supported this project to date, with oversight, and is included in the current Detailed Design stage and Traffic Management Planning for Network Rail’s overall delivery process.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by DaveHarries at 12:59, 6th November 2022 | |
Oxford City Council probably asked for it to be as long as possible.
My thoughts also. If they are anything like Bristol City Council then nothing would surprise me at all. I like going to Oxford for work but given the impending disruption that this will cause I am glad I don't live there!Dave
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by Rostock0 at 10:42, 6th November 2022 | |
I must admit I'm surprised Oxford City Council are prepared to allow such a long full closure of Botley Road to cars. They cycle and footpath routes are going to be very busy!
Oxford City Council probably asked for it to be as long as possible. No-one hates their residents more than Oxford City Council. I think the secretary of state for transport ought to step in here, though. Whatever the benefits are delivered by the railway improvements cannot possibly be worth the devastation caused by closing the only road into Oxford from the west for a year.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ChrisB at 17:33, 1st November 2022 | |
According to their e-newsletter received today, they are standing practically on top of where they are about to drill a borehole.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by TonyN at 22:05, 31st October 2022 | |
The Orange army have boots on the ground in Botley Road. Attached photo taken 11am today.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ray951 at 20:17, 31st October 2022 | |
I must admit I'm surprised Oxford City Council are prepared to allow such a long full closure of Botley Road to cars. They cycle and footpath routes are going to be very busy!
Maybe they will use it as an experiment to see what happens when one of the major routes into Oxford is shut. After all there aren't really any alternative routes that vehicles from West Oxford can use to get into Oxford with Botley Road shut, as they either have to go north via the A34 to Peartree or south via the Southern Ring Road, both are which are a very long way round.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by IndustryInsider at 15:51, 31st October 2022 | |
I must admit I'm surprised Oxford City Council are prepared to allow such a long full closure of Botley Road to cars. They cycle and footpath routes are going to be very busy!
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ChrisB at 15:21, 31st October 2022 | |
Thanks for the links above.
When talking to the planning engineer from Keir at the last drop-in event, he referred to turning minibuses around, rather than single/double deckers with shuttles of these running from the park & ride. The road will need to be shut well before Roger Dudman way as that area is the first to be redesigned to allow access to it while work then continues elsewhere.
NR is promising further detail in the middle of November with further drop-in sessions. WE'll need to await that info methinks to get a full picture.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ray951 at 14:56, 31st October 2022 | |
It could happen, but turning the bus around will be difficult. Mill Street will remain open, but not really suitable for buses
If the cafe at the bottom of Roger Dudman Way is being closed then there could be room to turn buses around there, and they may of course be able to use part of Botley Road as well.| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by Richard Fairhurst at 13:48, 31st October 2022 | |
Oxford Clarion report: https://twitter.com/OxfordClarion/status/1587063276395020291
OCC statement: https://news.oxfordshire.gov.uk/plans-for-botley-road-closure/
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ChrisB at 13:46, 31st October 2022 | |
Do you have a link for that please?
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by didcotdean at 13:40, 31st October 2022 | |
The Oxfordshire CC statement says: "it is planned that buses will operate to either side of the closure so those on through-journeys will need to do a short walk and change buses."
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ChrisB at 12:52, 31st October 2022 | |
It could happen, but turning the bus around will be difficult. Mill Street will remain open, but not really suitable for buses
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ray951 at 12:50, 31st October 2022 | |
Presumably the bus will terminate on the west side of the station, passengers will get out and walk to the other side of the station and, if necessary, get on another bus.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ChrisB at 12:25, 31st October 2022 | |
It'll be interesting to see how they cope with the loss of the popular park & ride in Botley. Or whether the bus will take a diversionary route.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by paul7575 at 12:16, 31st October 2022 | |
This must be one of the most consulted and well documented works proposals I’ve ever followed in te forum.
With real work starting next week we must soon be at the stage where the local paper will run scary headlines with a few people objecting on the basis they didn’t know…
Paul
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ray951 at 11:27, 31st October 2022 | |
More updates from Network Rail https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/western/oxfordshire/oxford-corridor-phase-2#upcoming-work
Including the news that Botley Road is likely to be shut for the whole of 2023 to vehicle traffic except for emergency services.
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by ChrisB at 17:46, 5th September 2022 | |
Shame the park & ride buses appear to be excluded from that list above!
The service 7 is apparently the Park & Ride Bus from Oxford Parkway. It's been combined with the service to Woodstock.
There might have been logical to include the S6 bus to Swindon
Hmm. I suspect the RRS/Fast service to Didcot plus the train is still quicker than the S6...
I have had it confirmed that you can alight or join these services in & around the city centre, and do not need to travel to the vacinity of the station (unless that's where you are headed)
| Re: Oxford Station - improvements, incidents and events (merged topic) Posted by grahame at 17:34, 5th September 2022 | |
Shame the park & ride buses appear to be excluded from that list above!
There might have been logical to include the S6 bus to Swindon
