I've merged a few historic posts here - as ever, in the interests of continuity, clarity and ease of reference.

CfN. 

 
Just hope those who volunteer/work at the new hub want to do THE job and not just do A job.

 


The elephant in the room of climate change is the effect of travel and transport, and one of the key improvers is using mass (public) transit.   One of the big sticking blocks of using public transport is the difficulty people have in navigating their way around a complex system about which information is not always easy to find. Will this nw hub help people use the public transport that it's so close to as well as looking after the nature and green environment?

 
https://www.chuffed.org/project/new-home-for-climate-hub-banes?fbclid=IwY2xjawGX6yxleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHXi9vPPWWyTzvucT_iRKdibzUhYB8SvgKSmQPR8Dvfh2XyiZNrDe0FrCBw_aem_JXoQ2365255j9IRxwI_AWA

 

I have not noticed arrivals boards in Bath Bus Station at all ... what I DID notice on my mainland European Journeys on trains was the very high prominence (equal in prominence) of arrival as well as departure boards - electronic and paper - at many stations.

Logic would suggest that arrival and departure numbers are balanced at most places. However, with bus stops where they are both sides of the road and on suburban railways with multiple platforms, the individual situation at stops and platforms will vary and you'll see far better waiting facilities at the departure side where people spend time than at the arrival side where people pass quickly.  I can find plenty of local bus examples (and indeed at one or two places I have  been involved in making suggestions which have been followed though) for a bus shelter on one side of the road but not the other.

Bath Bus Station DOES have more departures than arrivals ... certainly on our Faresaver routes into there.  Lots of people decamp off the incoming vehicles at Grand Parade and at Manvers Street just across the road from the Railway Station to connect with trains, and the bus sometimes terminates in Dorchester Street rather than continuing into the bus station.   However, many of the returning passengers board in the bus station.  From Grand Parade / Guildhall, some do their business through the city and join the bus at the bottom / bus station,  and the outbound buses on many routes don't even call at the Manvers Street stop opposite the station - irritating if there's a fast connection to be made as on a number of occasions I have dashed off the train and the short distance to the bus station, passing the bus I wanted as it pulls out and along Dorchester Street.

 
One of the things I have noticed that the arrival boards in any location seem to be shown longer in my opinion (time wise) than departures.

I think most persons that visit travel hubs are departing and not arriving.

 

Some major issues were dealt with as these new screens were brought in, but in my view you are correct in suggesting that the system remains awkward and could be much, much better.  As part of a public transport interchange and reception point for visitors, Bath Bus Station leaves a lot to be desired.

 
Continuing on the screens at Bath Bus Station - having one screen with its scrolling display for bays 1-8 and another for 9 -16 (the actual split may be different)is also very user unfriendly as well t requires you to search two screens, which are not necessarily in synch. One screen should show “page 1” for all bats permanently and have pages 2 - 5 scrolling on the other. No need to show buses that leave in more than about 30 minutes at all. Also need a third bank of screens in the middle- if you’re in a queue at bays 9 or 10 both sets of screens are too far away to read.

 

Operators in Cornwall do have access to the system, are able to update there own journeys and add messages to displays.

The problem is bus disruption information is there are simply too many systems in place.  The process needs a single point of input for disruption which creates a data source that can then be used by the multitude of data outputs to give consistent information to passengers.

 

I have spoken with the odd contact ;-) on this thread as originated and understand "it's WECA" ... personal message to follow with an email address.

 
Hmm. This is more of a maze than many people would suspect.

Back to Bath and if it's the case that the council runs Bath bus station and funds it by charging the bus companies for access, it's funny that with council-subsidised services such as the 6a, the subsidy doesn't extend to use of the bus station by its own subsidised services - the 6a turning at the bus station and laying over in one of the bays, but is not permitted to pick up passengers there, they have to go up the road and around the corner to the stop in Manvers Street.

Mark

 
The display screens in Cornwall are the responsibility of the Cornwall Council.
Individual operators may be given access, but unlikely.

The problem occurs when vehicles are on diversion, the Council rarely put that on the screens.

 
The way the screens work now: they display bus departures out to a ~90 minute horizon. The screens rotate up to four pages of bus times and for the more frequent buses, several different departures. As the screens do so they do not display a timer and it's not quick or straightforward to check departure times for a particular bus as the only one that's relevant is on the first screen and passengers need to hang about until that's displayed once more.

This isn't the best practice - passengers do not need to know future departures, they're already at the bus station so they are looking for the next bus departure on any particular route. If the screens displayed only the next bus for any particular route, it might even be possible to eliminate the screen rotations which would be a big win for usability.

Thinking that First must run the screens I dropped them a tweet about it, they've responded saying it's actually the local authority that runs the bus station. I asked which local authority and they've responded that it's Bath and North East Somerset.

The screens... there's more... last year I raised the issue that some of the displays are misconfigured - the image being displaced horizontally to the extent that on a couple, the first column displaying the service numbers is part hidden leaving people who aren't local to Bath guessing.

And then the new acid etch graffiti - having raised that as an issue, to be fair, someone quickly came around to attempt to remove it. Unfortunately they were equipped only with a damp sponge or similar, so, for now, the graffiti survives and is encouraging more.

Mark

 
Using it today, a passenger in a (small) mobility scooter was boarding: the bus station bay layout was not cooperating with this as once the bus ramp was out the concrete high kerb deflector by the boarding area didn't allow them to take a straight approach to the ramp.

Mark

 

Another sign sign of decline, designed to put people off using them by making access as uneasy as possible, casting doubt on if you are actually supposed to be using them.

 

It is very sad seeing how this lobby area, with what was the information desk, has been left to become unused. The door into it from the bus station is currently blocked off, so you have to go out into the street to back into it to look at the desultory set of leaflets. Only when inside the lobby do you find a sign to tell you the toilets are through a further door into the noodle bar cafe. These toilets aren't always available though, as the people running the cafe have blocked access when it is full.

Getting any useful information beyond what is shown on the screens is almost impossible now. I have spent many an hour trying to find out what is happening with buses I've waited for there, looking for somebody who might know, and having to ask random drivers as there is nobody else to ask.

Given that not all First buses now use the bus station, and there is no information on where others go from (both First and others), and that Bath does attract a lot of visitors, I think the desertion of the information desk is a disgrace, and the dowdy look of that lobby area just as bad.

 

No, and I don't think it is planned to happen. There are now some leaflets in racks.

 
Has the information desk re-opened yet?

 
Thank you for the various inputs - amongst those who have used it, a clear majority are not thrilled and it doesn't have a loving fan club.  Personally, I think the best things about it are the catering outlet and the places the buses go.

 
I had to vote 'Never used it'. Which slightly surprises me. I've been a fairly regular visitor to Bristol's second-nicest suburb for the last five decades, and for all that time I've almost always used public transport. In my teens and twenties, I always used the No.339 bus, sometimes changing for Trowbridge, Devizes and other mysterious places.

For the last twenty years, since I've been living within walking distance of Montpelier station, I've only ever used the bus for the last leg of the journey home, and only then if I've missed the last Beach line train.

I did poke my head around the door last year just to see what it was like though. It was a hot day, and it seemed pretty badly ventilated.

 
Not thrilled.

* As soon as it gets busy it doesn't work well, as queues conflict with circulation.

* The continuous deep eaves, combined with the building's glass means that it needs (but doesn't receive) frequent window cleaning.

* It's difficult to identify the entrances from Dorchester Street from the rest of the glass frontage - though it has to be said that the pigeons do not have a problem with this - and the interior has built-in bird roosts for them to enjoy after they've fed on the bird seed that a local well meaning but misguided person scatters round the building (in addition to the entire city centre).

* It's not big enough to include all of the city's services - and for services that do not use the bus station, information on and directions to where those services *do* terminate is poor - and in any case some are ten minutes walk away. (This is something that it shares with Bristol's bus station where various services from and to Wales aren't able to use the current station - not sure if they were able to use the previous one, mind).

Was the objection to keeping the 30s-but-in-keeping-with-its-surroundings Churchill House was that its retention meant that the site wouldn't be able to accommodate bendy buses? Not sure how the current bus station would cope with those either, and looking at the comparative footprints on maps.nls.uk, the corner block of the former electricity offices were a gift for reuse.

I also seem to recall that the bus station cost £28 million rather than the £14 as stated by Wikipedia with reference to a vanished first group web page.

Mark

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17.5&lat=51.37778&lon=-2.35923&layers=193&b=1

 
"Take it or leave it". Firstly, I barely remember the old bus station. Secondly, I do remember enough to say that IMO the new one is better, both as a building and especially in terms of location. The new (ie. current) building isn't particularly attractive but it works and I suppose I have low expectations of bus stations – by their nature they tend to be grimy places of transit and unwilling waiting. At least they don't smell of stale cigarettes nowadays!

 
I opted for "not thrilled" but I thought that I'd better add why.  At first it seemed just the (bus) ticket.  Built adjacent to the railway station to form a transport hub, sensible layout with all the required facilities associated with an important transport centre.....what wasn't to like?
Sadly, the high aspirations of the bus station seem to have evaporated over the years.  On my more recent visits it's seemed to look increasingly tired with parts of it put out of use...all classic signs of decline.  Maybe I went there at a bad time but that was the impression that I was left with.

 
From Wikipedia ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_bus_station


Well - does it work well for YOU or do you still hanker after the old bus station?

 
>>FoSBR» is currently campaigning for better bus/train integration - making it easier for people to switch modes.

Good, bus/train integration is a bit of a dirty word locally, since earlier this year when First changed the route of Bath's 6 and 7 bus to terminate at Bath's Guildhall rather than at the bus and rail stations. The local authority has a little say in this as they fund the last three services of the day and those *do* run from the bus station, but being hourly, it's very fortunate if, eg. trains connect.

Something I didn't expect for 2022 that we'd have another cycle in which the government would be so good at talking up public transport while at the same time taking steps to grind it into the dust.

Mark

 

I had a look at it the other week.

FoSBR is currently campaigning for better bus/train integration - making it easier for people to switch modes. We had a meeting with WECA a month or so back to discuss this, and Bath Bus Station was mentioned as one of the few places in the region where real-time train information is made available to bus users. It's actually fairly cheap and easy to set up, and we think it should be made available at other interchanges. As well as giving useful information to people who already swap modes, it also raises awareness of travel options for people who may not realise that a train may get them where they want to go quicker.

Someone travelling from Radstock to Swindon, for example, would probably change from bus to train at Bath, whereas someone travelling from Keynsham to Box might start on the train and finish their journey by bus. Both would presumably welcome this additional real-time information.

However, when I pointed out the display at Bath to my teenage daughter, she said she though it was just confusing: 'How do you know which ones are trains and which ones are buses' was her main observation! So there is clearly scope for improvement.

At our meeting with WECA, one of the main issues they raised was a lack of space for information. This, along with clear presentation, costs money. And there's not much of that about at the moment.

 
Has anyone experienced Bath bus station's new passenger information screens?

The good: they're of a more appropriate size for the bus station, though given the length of the building, anything's going to be a challenge.

The challenging: three screens, one of which is devoted to rail information (despite several of Bath's bus routes having been altered and no longer serve the bus and rail stations...)

The curious: the rationale for the order of display of services isn't clear - and the fact that the screens change frequently and without warning means that it's difficult to scan them for the service in which one is interested as the screen will likely change while the passenger is still part way through it.

The very challenging: the bus screens scroll at slightly random intervals with a maximum display time of around 10 seconds but sometimes very much less.

The peculiar: within the 10 second complete rewrite, a screen's individual fields will sometimes update and that's very disruptive.

While the screens are initially attractive, it's difficult to gather useful information from them.

My suggestion would be:

*Ditch the rail information. Use that third screen for bus info.

*Given the additional real estate provided by the third screen, on all three, cease switching the pages: just provide a list of times for upcoming services with an orderly right to left progression, dropping 'em off the top of the first screen as they depart.

Oh and lose the plastic owl, as the pigeons aren't bothered.

Mark

 

Yes I quite agree, and also that good passenger information would generate more bus income (especially as tourists, at least those from overseas, are far more likely to be fare paying than local residents, of which senior bus pass holders will make up a large proportion).

Sadly bus information centres do seem to be on the way out, but I don't think it is completely inevitable. As it happens, I was in a very different type of town a few months ago, Mansfield, which has almost no tourism to rely on, and its bus information centre was thriving (and the bus station a much more pleasant building to be in than Bath's).

 

Indeed. But it doesn't "make money" or even pay for its staff by giving out information.  You could argue that good passenger information helps generate more bus income and goodwill, and provides a service, but that's not how the accountants have seen it.  With the loss of commission because so many sales have gone online, it ceased to be viable ... see my comment just up thread, which is not just a guess.

 

Yes, it felt neglected even before the pandemic hit, and since the first lockdown it has looked forlorn. I suspect the first lockdown finally did for it. Over the years I have relied on it a few times to get information (though not always successfully) so am not pleased to see it close, and when I have used it, there were always tourists waiting there for information, so it cannot just be a lack of demand.

 
I happened to have to visit the First Bus offices in Bath last April. The Information Desk was unmanned, neglected and certainly looked closed even then.

 

When I went past there on 10th, Chris, it looked closed and cleared at that point and past conversations would suggest that this is not short term.  The finances of information centres have been badly knocked by the loss of commission on National Express tickets now that most people book them online and I would not be at al surprised should that unit be commercially let.

 
Covid? Christmas holidays early closing?

 
was at bus station a few days ago and the enquiry office was not in operation and looked very closed.

Hope its only for a short time.

 

I'm on the First Bath Bus User Customer Panel - meeting every couple of months, providing feedback into the bus operation and receiving feedback in return. Although the bus station was only opened less than 10 years ago, there are a number of issues that arise making elements of its operation less that ideal. In no particular order, grumbles include:
* Mobile phone / WiFi dead zone
* Awkward to manoeuvre buses out at times
* Road network jams getting buses in and out
* High bus mileage in area due to one way systems
* Use of bus station as a though route for some buses (pass through do not call!)
* Lack of maps
* Lack of bays
* Lack of seating
* Lack of customer ambassadors
* Information area out of way
* Screens distant and show limited infomation (typically only destination)
* Screens do not include buses just outside

We should note it's not all negative ...
Solved ... pidgeons and their droppings
Good ... location for town and for railway connections

The bus station address is 10 Dorchester St. But buses stopping in front of it on Dorchester Street aren't show on the departure boards. "Bath bus station serves as part of an integrated transport interchange for the city of Bath, Somerset, England."

You have a glorious mixture of bus station landlord, bus operators and BaNES all with various responsibilities and a need to interface ... and with multiple bus operators the need to co-ordinate for use of facilities, yet not allowed to talk too much or they'll be accused of having a cartel. Co-ordination from BaNES is somewhat lacking as they're manpower short - they have a Strong team of one as I understand it with a job that really needs multiple people.

Teething troubles, growing pains, elements not fit for purpose, or unreasonable expectations?   Both passngers and operators are distinctly frustrated by some of the items I list above.

 
First Buses in Bath are now carrying posters saying that the new bus stationw ill open on 7 June 2009.

It will be next to the rail station which is good and although it isn't the prettiest building it is better than the old one and the passenger facilities will be better (automatic doors and electronic departure boards)

I was surprised to see that tarmac has been laid on the "bus apron".  Presumably this is cheaper than laying a concrete surface but I predict that it will wear out very quickly.

 
Like I said, it's not going to be long before some drunk climbs up that and jumps off into the oncoming traffic.

Stupid, short-sighted design. Ugly, too.

 
Some Pictures of the new Bus Station Can be found here:
http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/galleries/New-Bath-bus-station-gallery-920030-detail/gallery.html

 
The new bus station will be alongside the railway station as part of a new transport interchange. Where the old bus station used to be is where the new shopping centre is being built. Believe me, as a Bath resident we've been waiting a very very long time for this new shopping area so are gladly putting up with the centre of Bath being a building site. The next phase will see major work going on at Bath Spa railway station as part of the new transport interchange.

 
Is the new bus station located on Manvers Street in the same place as the old one? The journey from railway to current temporary bus station is about the only one I can manage on foot in the centre of Bath at the moment without getting irredeemably lost amongst building sites, roadworks and hoardings...

 
I predict that when the new Bath Bus Station does open, it'll close again within weeks on health and safety grounds. Every time I see those steel "monkey bars" on the street-facing wall which serve, I assume, as some form of decoration, I shiver to think of the drunken idiots climbing them and jumping off...

 
I was think that was well no station to station access built yet.

 
 
      I asked a member of Bath station staff yesterday, he said probably 2010. Take into consideration the upside carpark has not yet been replaced with the stsation to station access    quite a large job one would imagine......

 
This coming June.

 
Do you know when the new Bus Station in Bath opens.?
There was to be a link butI think that comes later..

Less of walk to the bus station.