Disappeared down a hole...

 


Seems like what I was reacting to has disappeared!

 
One of the problems with a subway at St Erth is the watertable. There are an awful lot of water sources in the area which would need 'dealing with' in addition to the perceived 'simple' tunneling under the track. People familiar will remember the extremely large water holding vessel buried as part of the P&R construction, that's now under the feeder road on the northern side of the station buildings.

 

Thank you, as ever, RichardB. 

 
Haha! The first self-funding underpass.

Mark

 

I can tell you that an underpass was seriously considered but ruled out quite a long time ago now. 

 
Given that Cornwall is the county that in some ways gave the world hard rock engineering & mining, it's surprising that an underpass wasn't a contender for that one. Heights there are somewhat in favour and its something that would have offered a straightforward high throughput walking route between the new down side car park and the bay platform.

Mark

 





 















St Erth is a mess including passengers aiming for St Ives from the East having to decend to the Park and Ride Carpark before re-climbing to platform level and up the temporary section of the new bridge.

 
The old bridge is no more, removed overnight, and the new bridge brought into use on an adhoc basis with temporary steps and the lifts not in service.

Details in this Facebook post

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2589934031098628?multi_permalinks=8599469560145015&hoisted_section_header_type=recently_seen

 
AFAIK it's still AB from St Erth to the first stop signal controlled by Roskear Junction with a tail lamp camera provided to allow Train out of section to be sent once the train has cleared the section.

Unfortunately the Down Main from St Erth to Marazion did not become fully track circuited in the 1974 scheme, the 1974 Sectional Appendix says that for any train heading for Long Rock depot or No 1 siding, the guard must inform the Penzance signalman whether or not the train is complete with tail lamp.  I'm not sure why a tail lamp camera was never provided here since when St Erth was switched out late at night it could be quite a restrictive arrangement.

 
I'm not sure of the actual location of the fringe, but from St Erth 'box towards Plymouth, it's Track Circuit Block (using axle counters) controlled by Roskear.  Towards Penzance, it's Absolute Block to Ponsandane and from there, where the line becomes single, it's TCB to the terminus.  I think I remember correctly (from more than 50 years ago) that the Down Main line to Ponsandane is track circuited, so that the Penzance signaller can give "train out of section" to St Erth as soon as a down train clears onto the single iine towards Penzance, without having to wait to see the tail lamp as the train passes the actual signal box at Penzance

 
Camborne I hope (although the new town in Cambridgeshire is in the same general direction....)

 

It looks like 7 miles. Up to a mile west of St Earth 6 miles towards Cambourne taking in Hayle.

 
Hi all,

How far down on the CML does the St.Erth signal box cover?

Thanks all in advance
GWR 158

 
Good that work is starting on this very long running project.

Pleased that the current bridge is going to be reused at Cranmore on the East Somerset Railway.

 
At Maiden Newton we all used the barrow crossing more often than not. Then the box closed and some time after they removed the crossing.
However, common sense took over and it was reinstated.

 
Could not find out the cost of the bridge would any one know the approx cost?

 
"Work is underway to make St Erth station in West Cornwall fully accessible for the first time."

*Paddington hard stare at barrow crossings generally*

Mark

 
Work begins on the new St Erth footbridge


https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/work-begins-to-bring-step-free-access-to-st-erth

 

Looks like the bridge is intended to go to Cranmore on the East Somerset Railway where the second platform is being rebuilt.

See page 38 of the Heritage Impact Statement.

https://planning.cornwall.gov.uk/online-applications/files/70BC32F83ECA0AB85153492959BDF99B/pdf/PA20_01458-ST_ERTH_HERITAGE_IMPACT_STATEMENT-4857142.pdf

 
Been investigating this, this weekend.

Lots of Planning resources here from Cornwall Council. Approved last Spring.

https://planning.cornwall.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=Q5W2DDFGL2M00

Highlights,
1. Lift on down platform side to have additional entrance from the new P&R car park.
2. Temporary Bridge whilst construction in progress at extreme eastern end of the Station.
3. Considerable discourse on finish to new structure in the planning process.
4. Old Bridge to be used in Somerset, presumably on the Minehead line.


 

 
Light pollution is indeed significantly less, indeed Cornwall Council has been replacing light polluting sodium street lamps with more directional white light ones too. More recently the MOD have also replaced large sections of the offending perimeter security lighting at RNAS Culdrose with similar highly directional, less offensive, focussed white light lamps.

 

Thats interesting.  Must have a look at that soon.  Does it throw much light pollution like the local street lighting around here does?

 
Odds and ends associated with this project continue to be completed. I was at St Erth yesterday (29 Dec 2019) waiting for the 1626 up IET to Truro. The new high intensity LED lighting on the platforms installed intermittently over the autumn is superb. The throw across the platform area that each post is designed to cover is as near as perfect as far as I could see as night fell. A tremendous improvement.

 
From
https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/council-and-democracy/council-news-room/media-releases/news-from-2019/news-from-october-2019/good-news-for-cornwall-s-railways-as-number-of-journeys-soar/

 

Or do you mean change at Sterth for Stives?

 
Looks like lovely weather down that way.

Must find an excuse to travel from Snerth to Snives by train again soon.

 
In use earlier this week, several reports that it has been full at times over the summer months.

 
Back online now

https://twitter.com/DCRailPart/status/1146372877299716096

 
It's been deleted for some reason.

 


Format looks right ... let's try another:

https://twitter.com/DCRailPart/status/1145969478607560704

 
Link not working for me. All I get is a message that the page cannot be found

 
and we had a promo for the P&R

Devon and Cornwall Partnership Tweet - subsequently deleted it seems.

 
There's a right mess going on the platform management, let me see if I can explain. The prime foot root from the South CP site to the train is up the ramp onto the Penzance direction platform and from there over the bridge to the Plymouth platform. This is where there's a kerfuffle.

All people coming off the bridge are being forced out of the station and back into the 'ticket hall' before coming out onto the St Ives platform, this is being done for fare issuing purposes. What's annoying is that this flow of P&R passengers is mixed with those coming from the East off of the mainline, the vast majority of these of course will be ticketed already, making an unnecessary detour.

When the service gets really busy this will cause imo unnecessary angst for Rail transferees.

This clearly hasn't been thought through in the design of the scheme.

 
The D&C Rail Partnership have updated their website with full details of the P&R site and connections ....

https://greatscenicrailways.co.uk/stations/st-erth-park-and-ride/

 
The platform modifications were solely to cope with general passenger numbers. The old Platform3 was very narrow and could not efficiently handle growth in passengers. Wide platform is safer. Two sided boarding was never an issue , nor needed.

 
Lesson No.1.  Never put any signalling equipment immediately behind a buffer stop.......

 
Double sided works best (and is probably only used) for exceptionally high volume commuter traffic, either by emptying a train onto two platforms quickly, or emptrying onto one and loading it from another by careful timing of the door sequence. St Erth doesn't fit that match.

 

I came up with the thought that
a) Dispatch with doors on both sides would be a more complex and perhaps lengthier process
b) Double sided isn't commonly built these days ... and might have needed a more detailed safety case
c) Traffic is predominantly to St Ives in the morning and from St Ives later in the day, so there are unlikely to be conflicting major flows off and on the same train.

 
Most of the flow to/from St Ives would be rail side, operating as you envisage Clan Line, would have made this difficult without taking more of the 'non rail' part of the Hub. Space is still tight on the North Side. A full fence reconstruct would have been needed too.

The one issue I think that needs some permanent remedial work is the area, currently temporarily fenced, around the buffer stop considering the potential volumes of potential pax in that area. The low level railings as on the leaflet illustration will need to be installed quickly.

 
This may be a silly question.....but why didn't they move the buffet side platform over and extend that to full length ?  Then you could have had passengers boarding one side and leaving the train from the other side - (at the same time ?). One way traffic on each platform.

 
Yes, we've come a long way from:

_{The Slow Train, Flanders and Swann}

Happily, they didn't all pass out of our lives...

 

Many, many thanks for those pictures

Isn't it astonishing to consider how things have changed.  On a line that was so nearly closed under the Beeching plan, we now have a platform widened to take the crowds, maximum length trains, and a service that's running as frequently as the line will cope with - even cutting out stops at Lelant (Central not Saltings) to speed the trains up!

 
In service pics (Today - mine again, same rules as before) ..

























The Car Park will be operated by APCOA it seems, although the machines aren't working on the South side. The bus incidentally is driving pax between the Station forecourt and the South site.

 
Not planning to visit for a few days, but to report all is open, both the rebuilt platform and P&R site. Lelant Saltings reduced to 'Parliamentary' as from today.

 
Progress continues ....

Platform







P & R







(Personal Photos again)

Now reasonable suggestion that work should be completed to schedule for both segments of the work. Track and Buffer Stop now in place so just the civils around the platform to go. The P&R site is virtually deserted of people so must be very much in the closing stages.

 
Work in Progress taken today ... (once again Copyright waived)

 
Some copyright waived (self taken) for the record, pictures from today, before the works start tomorrow.

 

and of course if the bus doesn't connect eg. Up Sleeper from St Erth leaves just before A17 arrives ...  Hotel in St Erth on GWR if connections via Saltings fail ?

 
Loving the cartoon railway worker. I for one didnt spot Mr Benn stepping out the back of the costume shop changing room, but I bet the St Erth folks are very glad he did.

 
The leaflet





(Personal Twitter account)

 
That is what the 'Upgrading St.Erth station Thursday 7 to Friday 31 May 2019' leaflet says. In fact it also includes the 16A from Penzance to St.Ives. Might be something to do with the disabled access at St.Erth as St.Ives tickets are valid to Penzance so you can double back as there is no lift at St.Erth.

 

And the bus saves the walk up the hill from the station!

 
16? That's Pz - St Ives & v.v via the North coast road, Gurnards Head/Zennor, etc; goes nowhere near St Erth

 
Apart from it being a more scenic route by train. Its half the fun of going to St Ives.

 
As First say rail tickets are valid on all buses to St.Ives on services 16 A17 and T2 I cannot imagine anyone would want to get the train as it is only a 12 minute trip on the bus and the A17 is half hourly direct from St.Erth to St.Ives.

 
GWR suggest you allow an hour to travel from St Ives to St Erth for connections !!  Really ?

 
Loads of people and equipment on the site(s) north and south of the station today, there's a decent chance now of at least partial completion within the timescales. Progress has been impressive since my last visit. The construction of the disabled ramp access to and from the main down platform from the southern car park is now well underway too.

I'm concerned however that the St Ives platform work, and access to it, will lead to damage to the effective pristine nature of what's been built. There doesn't appear to be any 'dirty' road access to the work site and the machinery, spoil and construction materials will all need to be delivered and removed over the new build. I seriously can't see these operations being done by rail.

Does anyone have any access to the new track layout? Will the speed restriction into St Erth from the branch be lifted with the new track plans?

 
It did indeed.

I was there 09:30 on Thursday.

 
Ooh err that might have worked..

 
Definitely more blue sky when I was there - scorchio
(14.00 today for the record!!!)

 

I wonder if you were there at the same time as me...







Still some work to do on the bay platform though

 
All the old forecourt area has now been paved at a bus stop shelter erected. I did have a photo but it's 4+ mb and I'm not techy enough to sort it so it will post...

 
At a time when Andrew Haines is telling everyone how the passenger must come first, isn't this a wonderful example of how the passenger is low down the railway's list of priorities.  This could have been done in the winter months when passenger numbers would have been much lower, and it probably wouldn't have been so much of an issue not having the turning facilities.  Or if that's not the case, then would it have been the end of the world to leave the current set up until next winter? Or could a temporary arrangement involve a scaffolded platform over the redundant line to provide the extra width?

 
Great fun for those with luggage !! May half term in St Ives is extremely busy for family holidays  No mention of this on GWR website yet.

 
The closure is to allow the bay platform to be re-engineered to remove the redundant line and extend the platform width.

The timing of it allows the rail replacement buses to use the new bus turning facilities at the front of the station rather than on the busy main road.

Not only does it include one of the May Bank Holidays and half term but also the St Ives food festival.

 

Even the shuttle to Saltings will need a lot of buses at bank holiday and halfterm!

 
and it will be a last hurrah for Lelant Saltings Park & Ride.

 
You would need a lot of buses to match the capacity of the train service.  Also avoids traffic congestion in St.Ives.

 

It's only 12 minutes by bus St Erth to St Ives - having got people on the bus at St Erth, wouldn't it be quicker simply to drive them to St Ives?

 
Announced today....
7th May - 31st May,  bus transfer St. Erth to Lelant Saltings for connection into a train service to St. Ives,  apart from early morning & late evening services.  To do the platform work at St. Erth.

That'll be a fun half term & bank holiday

 
Was the Extreme Rail Group putting pressure on again?

 
I should add that there's no truth to the rumour that they've approved a station at Pilning Westgate with Park&Ride facilities because they need SEWWEB votes to get the St Erth deal through...

 

Rumour has it that the Government is likely to ask for a three-month extension so that the summer timetable doesn't start until August this year. 

 
State of Play as at 1500 today ....





.... major progress still needed to make the May timetable change.

 

That would be to the GW consultation rather than the St Ives one?   Very interested to hear what they have to say - maybe a separate thread?

 

Looks very interesting.  I have heard rumblings / suggestions before - amazed I couldn't find a thread to started one at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=21166.0 . Please fill us in there.

 
Yes, I have a personal interest in Item 14 which is looking very positive.

 
If anyone is interested, I have Lostwithiel Town Council's submission to the consultation as a word document.

 
I agree the document referred to by grahame is most interesting. It seems to be a very well considered wish list for the new franchise to live up to. Someone/groups seem to have really done their homework.

 

Looking up something quite, quite different, I came across Cornwall Council's franchise input.  It has the following to say about Lelant in answer to question 20:


My bolding. 

Rest of document very interesting too!

 
Yes, but if you look at a map its not too far to St.Erth.  Looking at the same map you can see Carbis Bay catchment area is easily ten times the size of Lelant Saltings, and its not just a seasonal resort.

 
Good point, 'jester'. 

 
It will be a massive loss for the families who use Lelant saltings when they
stay at the (very busy) holiday Park nearby.
They are certainly not going to traverse the busy road to
St.erth either.
 

 
It is further instructive to look at latest ORR figures for station use:
St Ives: 752,654
Carbis Bay: 234,688
Lelant: 9,618
Lelant Saltings: 145,110
St Erth: 261,664
Pinches of salt and interpretation needed all around and a reminder that if you look back at historic figures, they have been heavily distorted (I think) by things like line rover / buy for any journey ticket schemes, etc.

Also interesting to try to learn from these figures when considering that Lelant had an 8 hour gap in services in the middle of the day, but then its catchment overlaps with that of Lelant Saltings so it's pretty hard to forecast ahead (how many parked at Saltings, how many walked there?)

Carbis Bay numbers are not dissimilar to ... Topsham, Pewsey, Cookham ... (looking for places with between 200k and 250k per annum) ... short journeys, hourly train, logic might suggest that if the average wait time for people arriving randomly at the station was proportionally less to their average journey time, a significant uptake might be expected. ORR figures do not give destinations, but Carbis Bay with an average wait of 30 minutes and an average journey time of 8 minutes has a 4.0 ratio.

If you're hoping for a suggestion / conclusion here, sorry, I have none ... just looking at numbers to help understand the conundrum / choice(s).

 
It works the other way round too. GWR will be able to see how the revised service runs (with all calls at Carbis Bay), see how it has been used in practise, then fitting in an hourly call (by request) at Lelant if time/demand allows. I'm guessing extra calls at Carbis Bay are more financially incentive than an hourly service at Lelant?

 

Thanks Graham.  Yes, I have it too.  I have to say I am disappointed that the plan isn't to provide Lelant with an hourly service.  As it is, the plan leaves the Lelant area with no service for much of the day and while St Erth isn't far away, you can't safely walk along the road and I don't think we should be saying "Just take the bus".  Personally I think that Carbis Bay should be left as it is for the time being with an hourly service being provided at Lelant - the houses at Lelant Saltings are just ten minutes' walk away from Lelant.   

Once the revised service has run for the first Summer, GWR would then be able to see how it has been used and particularly if, in practice, they could fit a Carbis Bay call into all services as well as an hourly one at Lelant.    The view currently is that it will only be possible to fit one intermediate call into each train.  I'll be talking to Cornwall Council and others to see what their views are before responding to GWR.

 
According to RTT the Lelant Saltings Parliamentary Services are: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/LTS/2019/05/22/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

The revised Lelant services are: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/LEL/2019/05/22/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

The St.Ives half hourly service extends well into the evening: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/SIV/2019/05/22/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

And everything calls at Carbis Bay: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/CBB/2019/05/22/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

That all looks very positive to me.

 

Surprisingly late for a May 2019 timetable change, I have (via TravelWatch) a copy of a service consultation for the ongoing services.  Looking at the list of consultees, RichardB should have a copy too.

Background: When the Park and Ride at Lelant Saltings is replaced by the Park at Ride at St Erth, it is proposed to:
* Run a 30 minute service daytime St Erth to St Ives as at present, but with extra turn around time at St Erth
* Remove most calls at Lelant Saltings (just one train each way per day remaining)
* Retain morning and evening calls at Lelant, and add calls in both directions at around 12:30 and 15:30
* All services to call at Carbis Bay rather than alternate services

Comment is made about some local use made of Lelant Saltings, offering Lelant or the bus as alternatives. Perhaps this traffic which is within the catchment of both stations has gravitated to the Saltings because of the much better service and will revert to Lelant in the future?  I am noting the extra calls at Lelant are lunchtime and school-end time.

I don't know whether TWSW will make any formal input, but I would be most interested to read any views from users - as I suspect would other consultees.  Those more local to the area, such as the Devon and Cornwall CRP, are far more likely to have a tuned insight than I have ... but comments / thoughts welcomed.








 
I imagine all that land around the Lelant park and ride will be worth a fortune for re development before very long.

 
Due for completion around April or May 2019. Lelant Saltings will receive a Parliamentary service after that with only 2 trains calling daily.

 
I have started this topic to seperate it from other more generic posts.

This photograph shows current progress on the Downside P&R site:
http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/uploads/7/6/8/3/7683812/190209e-the-new-car-park-at-st-erth-for-the-park-and-ride-under-construction-copyright-roger-winnen-copy_orig.jpg

 
That is the down side of buses routing via the station although the junction will be traffic light controlled. Talk is that the existing foot bridge will be modified and have lifts installed at either end to allow disabled access from the down platform and south side car park to the up side and Bay platform for St Ives.

 

If that means busses 'diverting' to the station, then out again, even with traffic light assistance, that will add to their delays.  Joy 




Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.

 

I heard that the existing bay siding is to be shortened back and the disused platform on that side extended and widened. When complete this would allow trains from St Ives when arrived at St Erth, to unload on one side and load on the other.

Unrelated but I found out today that when work on the St Erth hub is complete early next summer the bus stops on the A30 by the station will be removed. All bus services will then call at the stop right outside the station meaning all buses will divert off and back on the A30 and no risking your life trying to walk across a busy trunk road.

 
Learned today that there are plans to widen the bay platform at St Erth by slewing the track to where the unused second platform line currently is.  Will ease congestion at busy times when those waiting for the St Ives train have to jostle with those getting off an incoming service.

 
Passed through St.Erth on Wednesday 14 June 2017 and captured these photographs of the start of the Car Park work (at the back of the current car park):

[Missing images to be reloaded at later date]

 
It would be a long walk round if you’re changing for St Ives, which many if not most of passengers alighting on the down platform want to do.  Looking at Google Earth you can see that Station Approach, the road that S&TE refers to, is narrow and unlit (I accept the latter can be fixed) and that the footway is on the side away from where the ramp would come down.

It maybe cheaper to build the ramp, but in my view it would not properly address the need to provide safe and convenient access to/from the down platform for those with luggage, buggies etc and/or cannot use stairs. 

I don’t accept that maintaining the character of the station (or any other station for that matter) should trump the need to provide the standard of access which passengers can reasonably expect nowadays.  Of course the new footbridge needs to be sympathetically designed (ie unlike the hideous structures you see at Honeybourne and Charlbury etc), but retaining the existing bridge in perpetuity just because it’s a relic of the GWR is not the way to go.

 
Yes, but the character of the station would be destroyed in the process.  It would be cheaper (and quicker) to build a ramp from the down platform to the underbridge just west of the platforms and use that for PRM access.  A copy of the recent solution adpoted at Hayle station.

 
I sympathise with NR.  St Erth station is not a museum piece, it’s there to enable people to join and leave trains in the safest and most convenient way possible. 

It’s not as if it’s in a particularly salubrious area where the character needs to be maintained – it’s next door to the tyre dump which caught fire last year.