Thinking about the areas that have had Penalty Fares for longest, which as far as I'm aware are in the former Network SouthEast area, the following apply/ied:

• A large proportion of trains were DOO.
• A relatively large proportion of stations were staffed, and the rest (and staffed stations out of hours) had ticket machines for cash purchases for local journeys, and PERTIS machines to cover for other needs.

These conditions increased the need for and utility of Penalty Fares because:

• Without frequent ticket checks by guards, there were less frequent checks by RPIs (or whoever did them) and therefore the economics worked differently for the "I'll pay if I'm checked" passenger.
• Passengers mostly had the opportunity to buy a ticket, or at least pick up a permit to travel, and therefore there wouldn't be too many "gotchas" that genuinely didn't have the opportunity to buy a ticket or at least show intent to purchase.

Now that self-service ticket machines are more widespread, perhaps the second point is less important these days, and thus PFs can spread to provincial routes. With more people travelling perhaps the first point works differently now, as perhaps guards can't get through everyone, or for some other reason the "need" for PFs (in the eyes of the operators) has changed. This means the PF map now looks like a random patchwork.

I note that when TfW started PFs (or somehting similar) in the Valleys, there were comments about people having to allow extra time to buy their ticket as they were "no longer allowed" to board without a ticket at their local staffed station. Errr... you were never "allowed" - you've just been given a new deterrent!

 

Indeed.  About two months ago, after a medical appointment at the BRI (the hospital, not the railway station, bobm Image not available to guests ), I walked to (the other) BRI and bought a single ticket to Nailsea.

The train was delayed, by well over 15 minutes, but I simply got the next available one to get me home.

I couldn't be bothered to make a claim on 'delay / repay': I'd have got a notional refund of rather less than a pint in Wetherspoon's, for example.  Image not available to guests

CfN.

 

Yes, it was. But at the time everyone was far more concerned with the huge business of covid and I felt that although the treatment was poor ("trains were still running - not our decision that you could not use them" as I recall) it was not a time to follow-up and make a song and dance over it.  Pragmatic acceptance as sometimes happens.

I have had similar thoughts with regard delay / repay claims on rangers and rovers ... and in Interrail ticket compensations too. There have been a couple of occasions where significant delays have been suffered but ... yes ... I believe it's worked out by dividing down the cost over the number of active days, and then based on an assumption of a return trip on that day.   I am planning a 7 day Freedom of North East at £101.45 in a few weeks - that's £14.50 a day and so £7.25 per single journey.  So for delay of just under an hour, I would get £3.63 back.  Shrug shoulders and move on.

 
Thanks, both. I'd already slung in the delay repay claim but good to know more background. Not totally happy that for the four days I travelled, each day I raised the issue that the ticket had been given to me without the coupon needed to record the days on which I'd travelled and each time the reply was 'Don't worry about it' until it became an issue when I legitimately needed to use the 'fourth day' for travel after the ticket's expiry date had passed at which point I was alerted that I'd be hitting a penalty fare area. But the guy wasn't hostile about this, so, fine. (Also, why does the railway have 'Penalty fare areas'? Either they're checking ticketing universally or they're not...)

Also, Graham's experience with respect to a rover ticket when opportunities for travel were curtailed by Covid restrictions... that was poor.

Mark

 
I posted this in relation to delays I experienced while using a 14 day all line rover.   The advice dates from 2014 so may no longer apply.

 
It would be legitimate to include the rover ticket in the Delay Repay claim as it formed part of the contractual journey; might be interesting to see what the estimated amount due is! It wouldn't surprise me if they simply treated a 4 in 8 as 4 return tickets for claim purposes – consistent with season tickets being treated as a return ticket for each day's validity (or something along those lines). I can't remember if rover is one of the claim options though.

 
Good point - the delay repay claim will be with regards to the Newport - Bath leg only as I was travelling on the return half of a Bath - Newport period return. Certainly today was similar to a journey covered by split tickets and there is a discussion to be had exploring the consequences of delays while travelling on a rover ticket but in this case the experience with TfW was in the main positive even if things promptly went south at Newport. And it would be good if GWR/Network Rail engaged in some self-reflection on their train platforming practices: it's not good for passengers and I'm not convinced it's good for staff either.

Mark

 
It'll be interesting to understand how much delay/repay you get. It's generally x% of the single fare,  but presumably isn't on a 5 day rover otherwise you might get back more than 100% of its cost?

 

Weymouth train was at the platform but at the extreme weatern end of it, train dispatcher said I'd missed it as its doors were closed and I asked if it could pick me up as it went past, which didn't go down well, as didn't the ensuing conversation about why trains stop in positions that impose the maximum walking distance on passengers. Now on the following Cardiff-Portsmouth with a delay-repay incoming.

Mark

 
GWR could help here as a Weymouth train leaves 2 minutes after this one arrives. Not exactly cross platform though.

Mark

 
At Newport in time for the 19:43 home, but as it was cancelled that'll put me over an hour down at Bath.

Mark

 
Speed restriction at Little Strettion as the train was brushed by vegetation, now up to line speed again and doing that yomping past vehicles on the A49 thing. Calling additionally at a couple of stations as the preceeding service was cancelled. At Craven Arms, fog.

Mark

 
Onto the 17:44 Manchester Piccadilly to Swansea at Shrewsbury. No chef and first class is quiet but the catering crew are on to things quickly. Snow on the ground outside again. The A49 looks quiet.

Mark

 
Snow swept into heaps on the platforms at Newtown, they've had a drop.

Mark

 
After fog at Machynlleth and snow cover on the last of the climb, now touching 70mph on the Cambrian main line north of Moat Lane through a frozen landscape.

Mark

 
Sun shining in the west over the sea, snow on the high ground inland, about to cross the bridge. No photos as the train windows are plastered. The ticketing irregularity as yet unresolved, something about which I am intensely relaxed. Onward.

Mark

 
No trains yesterday, just departed Penrhyndeudraeth, train manager doing chapter and verse on the expired ticket, he's taken it away to make enquiries by phone to Bath Spa ticket office and to TfW retail...

Mark