If we compare departure times to other modes of transport, there are similarities:

- A plane's departure time is when it is pulled back from the gate - not when the plane door (or gate door) shuts
- A ferry's departure time is when it leaves the dock or port, not when boarding closes

In terms of door closing times at GWR stations, most dispatchers will start the procedure 30 seconds before the advertised departure time. The exception is a Voyager which really does need 40 seconds for a right time departure.

In terms of the Pewsey situation, I suspect that was simply human error on the Train Manager not checking the departure time before closing the doors. The train was 3 mins late leaving Frome, so it would have been easy to have incorrectly assumed the train was still late at Pewsey.

 
The only reason I can see for a train to leave early is if it was overcrowded.

 
Regular users of this forum will be aware that the 20/30/40 seconds for closing doors before departure is often the subject of debate here.

I am very firmly of the view that the advertised "departure" time should be the door closing time. Firstly, that's what members of the public would expect. It is not very user-friendly for railway operators to expect passengers, especially those who do not travel frequently, to try to find a poster to tell them how long before the advertised time they have to be ready to board - it is largely a turn up and go service after all. Secondly, in my commuting days, all to frequently I missed connections due to delays on an incoming train, and quite frequently was on a platform before the onward service was "due" to depart only to find the doors firmly closed. There were some helpful train managers who would open the door on the rear driver's compartment to let me on at Platforms 4, 5 0r 6 at Reading, but this was the exception.

It really rubs salt into the wound if you miss your onward train in these circumstances. And before anyone starts wittering on about helping trains keep to time, just bring forward the advertised departure time by one minute. It is a passenger service ultimately, not a game to see who scores most quick departures, so please make it user-friendly for passengers.

(Rant over!)

 

It is a GWR standard.  Forty seconds on some types of services is too much and means the wheels can start moving half a minute before the scheduled departure time.

I've always thought that staff should be given guidelines as follows...

1) 40 seconds for a platform staff despached train with a guard.
2) 30 seconds for a self despatched train with a guard or a platform staff despatched DOO service.
3) 20 seconds for a self despatched DOO service.

 
I think it's a GWR standard: there are posters and announcements to the same effect at Nailsea & Backwell station.

 
The stations I frequent (Bristol, Bath, Chippenham) have regular announcements warning that train doors may close 'up to 40 seconds before departure'. Is that standard, or does it depend on the station/operator?

 
Not quite 3 minutes, but occasionally I've seen trains leave 1-2 minutes early where the platform clocks aren't easily visible where the guard is - e.g. Cathays, where the displays are primarily aimed at the platform entrances, and rather obscured by the shelter canopies at some points on the platforms.

I've also seen 2-3 minutes early where trains haven't needed to stop at request stops. Naturally trains don't wait time if not called to stop (and perhaps staff don't perceive a need to wait even if stopping), and similarly might not wait time at the next mandatory stop if it's also quite a small station. GWR and TfW now generally time for full 30 second (sometimes even 1 minute) dwells at request stops, and often the advertised times match the working times. So it's quite possible that a train will leave a main stop 30s early if the working departure time is on the half-minute, and then recover some time by missing a request stop or two. Compare this to the Far North Line where there are still zero dwells at request stops (given that up there the chance of not needed to stop is much higher) and the advertised time is slightly before the working time.

I think the right solution for GWR & TfW, where request stops are fairly well used, is to have the 30s dwells, but make the working times realistic times passengers need to be there to hail the train, and factor in non-stopping - so maybe 30s before the working arrival time, and 1m earlier, for example, if there are two preceding 30s dwells that might not be needed. So the train will appear late by passenger times if making the stops, but will be back to right time at the next mandatory stop.

As far as I'm concerned an early departure should be considered the same as a cancellation for Delay Repay purposes - and I imagine (hope) a TOC wouldn't fight that if the train genuinely left early.


IMX staff routinely start the process before departure time where the train is ready to go, such that it can leave bang on the advertised time, and TOC posters variously advise passengers that dispatch begins 30-40 seconds before departure time. At quiet self-dispatch locations it's perhaps more like 15-20 seconds, given that dwell times may only be 30s!

 
You could say that this happens by design at some London termini when doors are closed up to 2 minutes before the train is timetabled to leave for platform and on-train staff to check all the doors are closed, effectively meaning that the train has left so far as any intending passengers still on the platform are concerned. Somehow staff at intermediate calling points normally seem to carry out that process starting at the time shown in the timetable, which presumably has it built in.  Do any non-London stations have similar pre-timetabled departure time boarding restrictions?

 

Not common.   That train normally calls at Westbury but it's not doing so at the moment ...

https://www.firstgreatwestern.info/nrtt/2024_12/135%20London,%20Reading,%20Cardiff,%20Bristol%20and%20Taunton%20to%20Exeter,%20Torbay,%20Plymouth%20and%20Penzance.pdf

 
Someone on Twitter complained to GWR that this morning's 0815 departure from Pewsey departed at 0812 which meant that some passengers missed it through no fault of their own and had to wait over an hour for the next train at 0927
https://x.com/thompson_r86939/status/1879082643758940168

I checked the train in question - 1J72 - on RTT and it shows that it indeed departed Pewsey 3 minutes earlier than scheduled:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y22156/2025-01-14/detailed#allox_id=0

I don't think this sort of thing happens very often, does it?