175s to GWR

Three car 175 arrived today at Laira 97 minutes early so missed a chance to see it on Dawlish cams.

175002 arrived a Laira yesterday.

175002 left Ely Tuesday at 1306 (2hours late) hauled between two diesel locos maximum speed 30mph did a tour of England and arrived at Laira Wednesday at 0735 on time. I suppose the long route was for the speed restriction.

It certainly was a bit of a mystery tour! I guess it was the best route for keeping out of the way of everybody else.

Video of it on the Cornwall Railway Society website

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/latest-input--news--old-pictures-etc

175002 arrived a Laira yesterday.

175002 left Ely Tuesday at 1306 (2hours late) hauled between two diesel locos maximum speed 30mph did a tour of England and arrived at Laira Wednesday at 0735 on time. I suppose the long route was for the speed restriction.

It's all legalese, of course, so words are not chosen to convey meaning (not to us outsiders, anyway). But "award" of a contract is choosing one of the competing suppliers for the contract. In this case there was only one supplier, but the steps in the process and the terminology don't reflect that. The Cabinet Office has a guide to this stuff, which says:

1. A contract award notice informs interested parties that the contracting authority intends to enter into a public contract with a specified supplier (or, where relevant, multiple suppliers).

2. The standstill period is the period between the contracting authority announcing its intention to enter into a contract (by publishing the contract award notice) and actually entering into that contract; the contracting authority cannot enter into the contract during the standstill period. The standstill period provides an opportunity for suppliers to raise any concerns about, or formally challenge, the award decision before the contract is entered into. It must be at least eight working days beginning with the day on which the contract award notice is published.

It also starts with the phrase "Awarded contract", right at the top of the page, and goes on to include the fairly unambiguous Section V ("Section V. Award of contract/concession"):

A contract/lot is awarded: Yes

which I take, perhaps daringly, to mean "yes, a contract has been awarded". Compare, for example, to this one which begins "Opportunity" and doesn't yet have a Section V.

But parsing this contract notice is probably a bit moot given that the First Rail high-up who posts over on RailUK spoke a couple of days ago of "when the 175 units arrive", not "if".

: TonyK

It's a notice to explain why the contract hasn't been put out to tender, as is normally required for new kit, rather than "I'll get back to you when I find my pen". I'm not aware that it caused any cries of "Foul!", so hopefully it will happen soon.

It contains several things at once, since it also reports that the terms of a contract have been agreed between the parties (date of conclusion 29 August 2024) and that this is (was) followed by a standstill period to wait for objections and:

Subject to internal governance approvals and receiving no notice of any intention to legally challenge the award of this contract, First Greater Western Limited intends to award the Contract on a date following conclusion of the voluntary standstill period (i.e. no earlier than 10th September 2024).

Now those "internal governance approvals" will, I presume, include checking for compatibility with their other contracts - and most importantly the current NRC with DfT. Assuming no news means that process hasn't yet finished, I guess that DfT are being difficult - for example there's still an industry-wide review of the financials going on so it has to wait for that.

(This did come up on the Churchward thread earlier, but really belongs here.)

If I may clarify. The notice referred to on the find-tender service was issued in August and as I read it takes the form of a request to tender. In the public finance sphere, you can't just go out and buy something without asking around for a best price to get good / best value. I personally became aware of this August document a week or two ago, but did not report it here on the forum - yes, it was reported elsewhere in the rail / social media, but my view when I saw it was that it did no more than confirm that HMG and GWR were looking at the option and asking prices, which we knew anyway.

It's a notice to explain why the contract hasn't been put out to tender, as is normally required for new kit, rather than "I'll get back to you when I find my pen". I'm not aware that it caused any cries of "Foul!", so hopefully it will happen soon.

That's notice of an intention to sign, not actually contracting for it, and has been known about for a while. We are hoping to find notice of actual contract signing.

Reported elsewhere that the 175s are indeed on their way and will be in service from May:

https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/027591-2024

: grahame

: Chris from Nailsea

As readers of the Coffee Shop forum will have seen, I've got some serious 'previous' for moving topics - but purely in the interests of housekeeping and ease of future reference.

However, in this case, if grahame is happy to do it, I'll leave this one to him. That way, if it even possibly turns out to be the wrong call, he'll get the blame, not me.

CfN

I have given 24 hours notice - purely because it's a move from a restricted to a private area to a public one and so everyone who's posted needs an opportunity to object. Whichever of us wakes first in the morning, Chris.

Topic moved

: grahame

Personal view - to me the age of a train does not matter.

If it is reliable to run an appropriate advertised timetable, safe, clean, comfortable and affordable that suits me.

I have tried to put an algorithm to measure those factors and how they interact at

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=29118.0

: a-driver

: LiskeardRich

GWR are recruiting class 175 specific staff on their recruitment page, which makes me think they’re a pretty much done deal

It is a done deal, just being held up by “red tape”.

GWR should get their first look at a 175 very soon at Landore.

175101 was taken there the other day I believe it's the last one due to go there

: LiskeardRich

GWR are recruiting class 175 specific staff on their recruitment page, which makes me think they’re a pretty much done deal

It is a done deal, just being held up by “red tape”.

GWR should get their first look at a 175 very soon at Landore.

: Chris from Nailsea

As readers of the Coffee Shop forum will have seen, I've got some serious 'previous' for moving topics - but purely in the interests of housekeeping and ease of future reference.

However, in this case, if grahame is happy to do it, I'll leave this one to him. That way, if it even possibly turns out to be the wrong call, he'll get the blame, not me.

CfN

I have given 24 hours notice - purely because it's a move from a restricted to a private area to a public one and so everyone who's posted needs an opportunity to object. Whichever of us wakes first in the morning, Chris.

: grahame

I was - err - thinking of moving this thread from the Rumour Mill into a public area - the "Rumour Mill" was set up for when we saw just a whiff of smoke and suspected a flame and clearly it's more than that now.

Suggestion - unless anyone objects I will move this tomorrow (Sunday 8th) morning - I see nothing that should be a secret ...

As readers of the Coffee Shop forum will have seen, I've got some serious 'previous' for moving topics - but purely in the interests of housekeeping and ease of future reference.

However, in this case, if grahame is happy to do it, I'll leave this one to him. That way, if it even possibly turns out to be the wrong call, he'll get the blame, not me.

CfN

Yet more hand me downs and cast offs being used by the West side of the business.

Statement of fact.

The part of the former SW&W which eventually became Wessex Trains is the only TOC from 1994 that has never had any brand new rolling stock built for them. EVER!

Other companies cast offs, 150/1s and 175s.
Redeployed stock Turbos.
And the IETs on the Cardiff WofE services which they were never designed for or originally planned to be used on.

We are where we are. The long term replacements for the 150s, 158s and 166s still look to be five years away. If the 175s do come, that will help in the meantime. Not a cheap option but what else can be done? The only option available right now not to use IETs on the Cardiff - Penzances is to withdraw much of the service because, currently, there is nothing else to run it. No-one wants that.

The 175s - if they come - will allow the IETs to go back to main line work and also allow much else too.

As we’re in the rumour mill (despite 175s actually coming so not a rumour),according to a GWR employee friend the mess room rumour is Penzance to Cardiff will be split at Exeter once the 175s arrive.
175s working Exeter to Penzance, Falmouth branch and Newquay branch.

I'm concerned that GWR top brass are saying the deal hasn't yet been agreed by the DfT.

GWR are recruiting class 175 specific staff on their recruitment page, which makes me think they’re a pretty much done deal

: grahame

: LiskeardRich

As we’re in the rumour mill (despite 175s actually coming so not a rumour),according to a GWR employee friend the mess room rumour is Penzance to Cardiff will be split at Exeter once the 175s arrive.
175s working Exeter to Penzance, Falmouth branch and Newquay branch.

I was - err - thinking of moving this thread from the Rumour Mill into a public area - the "Rumour Mill" was set up for when we saw just a whiff of smoke and suspected a frame and clearly it's more than that now.

Suggestion - unless anyone objects I will move this tomorrow (Sunday 8th) morning - I see nothing that should be a secret, nor could it it now be suggested that the forum is spreading significant rumours; sure, there are some things to be confirmed and like 769s to Gatwick or new trains from Cardiff to Portsmouth, well founded plans can change.

It's a lot more than a rumour so I agree, Graham. As we've heard from several posters, GWR are putting arrangements in place for the 175s in the expectation that the deal will be agreed.

: LiskeardRich

: RichardB

: UstiImmigrunt

Yet more hand me downs and cast offs being used by the West side of the business.

Statement of fact.

The part of the former SW&W which eventually became Wessex Trains is the only TOC from 1994 that has never had any brand new rolling stock built for them. EVER!

Other companies cast offs, 150/1s and 175s.
Redeployed stock Turbos.
And the IETs on the Cardiff WofE services which they were never designed for or originally planned to be used on.

We are where we are. The long term replacements for the 150s, 158s and 166s still look to be five years away. If the 175s do come, that will help in the meantime. Not a cheap option but what else can be done? The only option available right now not to use IETs on the Cardiff - Penzances is to withdraw much of the service because, currently, there is nothing else to run it. No-one wants that.

The 175s - if they come - will allow the IETs to go back to main line work and also allow much else too.

As we’re in the rumour mill (despite 175s actually coming so not a rumour),according to a GWR employee friend the mess room rumour is Penzance to Cardiff will be split at Exeter once the 175s arrive.
175s working Exeter to Penzance, Falmouth branch and Newquay branch.

I'm concerned that GWR top brass are saying the deal hasn't yet been agreed by the DfT.

: LiskeardRich

As we’re in the rumour mill (despite 175s actually coming so not a rumour),according to a GWR employee friend the mess room rumour is Penzance to Cardiff will be split at Exeter once the 175s arrive.
175s working Exeter to Penzance, Falmouth branch and Newquay branch.

I was - err - thinking of moving this thread from the Rumour Mill into a public area - the "Rumour Mill" was set up for when we saw just a whiff of smoke and suspected a frame and clearly it's more than that now.

Suggestion - unless anyone objects I will move this tomorrow (Sunday 8th) morning - I see nothing that should be a secret, nor could it it now be suggested that the forum is spreading significant rumours; sure, there are some things to be confirmed and like 769s to Gatwick or new trains from Cardiff to Portsmouth, well founded plans can change.

: RichardB

: UstiImmigrunt

Yet more hand me downs and cast offs being used by the West side of the business.

Statement of fact.

The part of the former SW&W which eventually became Wessex Trains is the only TOC from 1994 that has never had any brand new rolling stock built for them. EVER!

Other companies cast offs, 150/1s and 175s.
Redeployed stock Turbos.
And the IETs on the Cardiff WofE services which they were never designed for or originally planned to be used on.

We are where we are. The long term replacements for the 150s, 158s and 166s still look to be five years away. If the 175s do come, that will help in the meantime. Not a cheap option but what else can be done? The only option available right now not to use IETs on the Cardiff - Penzances is to withdraw much of the service because, currently, there is nothing else to run it. No-one wants that.

The 175s - if they come - will allow the IETs to go back to main line work and also allow much else too.

As we’re in the rumour mill (despite 175s actually coming so not a rumour),according to a GWR employee friend the mess room rumour is Penzance to Cardiff will be split at Exeter once the 175s arrive.
175s working Exeter to Penzance, Falmouth branch and Newquay branch.

Personal view - to me the age of a train does not matter.

If it is reliable to run an appropriate advertised timetable, safe, clean, comfortable and affordable that suits me.

: UstiImmigrunt

Yet more hand me downs and cast offs being used by the West side of the business.

Statement of fact.

The part of the former SW&W which eventually became Wessex Trains is the only TOC from 1994 that has never had any brand new rolling stock built for them. EVER!

Other companies cast offs, 150/1s and 175s.
Redeployed stock Turbos.
And the IETs on the Cardiff WofE services which they were never designed for or originally planned to be used on.

We are where we are. The long term replacements for the 150s, 158s and 166s still look to be five years away. If the 175s do come, that will help in the meantime. Not a cheap option but what else can be done? The only option available right now not to use IETs on the Cardiff - Penzances is to withdraw much of the service because, currently, there is nothing else to run it. No-one wants that.

The 175s - if they come - will allow the IETs to go back to main line work and also allow much else too.

Yet more hand me downs and cast offs being used by the West side of the business.

Statement of fact.

The part of the former SW&W which eventually became Wessex Trains is the only TOC from 1994 that has never had any brand new rolling stock built for them. EVER!

Other companies cast offs, 150/1s and 175s.
Redeployed stock Turbos.
And the IETs on the Cardiff WofE services which they were never designed for or originally planned to be used on.

GWR recruiting engineers for the class 175s.

Heard 1 unit is due to make its way down to Laira later next month

: REVUpminster

Looks like the 175s are coming to Laira plus the two simulators. The 158s at Exeter to go to Bristol.

GWR to get all the class 175s. It be great to see them in service they are good units.

Looks like the 175s are coming to Laira plus the two simulators. The 158s at Exeter to go to Bristol.