That article says it is the 'full list' of Bus Service Improvement Plan spending. With its included map giving the impression large parts of the country are not getting any of the allocated money. With only a not very clear embedded link to the government's information on the BSIP.

Here is the full list of funding:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/bus-service-improvement-plans-local-transport-authority-allocations/bus-service-improvement-plans-local-transport-authority-final-allocations-2025-to-2026

Edit: Not shooting the messenger. Just criticising the journalism.

 
From the Metro, via MSN

 
From The Mirror, via MSN

 
I'm looking forward to applying for mine next year, when I will (hopefully) reach State pension age. 

 

I'm teetering on the brink of that particular addition to my wallet.  My application went in yesterday.

 

Are most of this forum's membership of senior bus pass age? I'd be interested to know the stats.

 

Not sure where is right for that really - but it continues the Manchester public transport theme that's topical this morning, so this looks fine.

Far from being just a Manchester / Northern issue though ... on my blog at https://grahamellis.uk/blog1399.html I wrote this morning about what happened at last night's Melksham Town Council meeting.

 
Not sure if this in the correct section for the topic.

Andy Burnham metro Mayor for Manchester speaking on LIVE on BBC breakfast talking about various issues,

stated he/they were going to have a meeting with Northern rail today(Wednesday 30 October 2024) to discuss the high amount of cancellations.

 

Thank you for bringing us that. Good on Manchester for retaining the £2 cap.  Environmentally, this is very encouraging and in an ideal world (or a better one?) I would have liked to have seen that nationwide - however, the temporary scheme that was in place was always going to be a challenge to maintain in areas where the typical bus journey is longer, such as the South West, whatever flavour the new government.

 
Ah Well,this is good news if your heading to Manchester for an event,

unless like most of us on here that have already got their senior citizen bus pass card.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz6jlze96elo

 
Aha ha ha. I of course meant £1.50.

 
I would hope not 

 
Taunton's £150 flat fare is also not increasing as far as I'm aware. The park and ride service is just £1.

 
In Swindon the short hop fare with Swindon's Buses on Tap on, Tap off was £1.80 until recently when it rose by 10p.   I don't see that increasing to £3 in January.

 
I don't see what's good or excellent news about the bus fare cap rising to £3.  This will probably mean that even very short distance bus journeys now will rise from £2 to £3.  I expect it will be the case with First Bristol/First West of England buses anyway.  As all their single fares are a flat fare of £2.  I can't see them changing their fare structure to for example short distance journeys for £2 and longer distance journeys for £3.  Will their "Tap in Tap out" system be able to work out short distance and longer distance journeys to calculate the fare?  We'll have to see.  But I expect they'll probably just change their flat fare single journeys to £3 to keep it simple.  So this would even mean even very short distance journeys of up to a few stops or only about a mile or so in distance would be £3 now.  Which is pretty expensive!  Some people would probably decide to walk instead of forking out £3 for such a short distance journey.

 

I fear that the 50% rise in the bus fare cap may be the only good news to look forward to from the Government this week! 

 
Excellent news. A sustainable increase for the government and not too great a price shock for bus users.

 
Just announced that the cap will be £3 throughout 2025:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c079nmk0rd5t


(From a live BBC feed)

 
I think this is just mischief making by the Telegraph.  Buses ae a big priority for the new Government so I think it is extremely unlikely the cap would simply be scrapped.  I can see the previously announced increase to £2.50 happening but then I can also see them sticking to the £2 too.

We'll see soon enough in the Budget.

 

There was a suggestion at one point, wasn't there, that the cap was to go up to £2.50 but that was not done and I wonder if it's because a general election was coming up.

If I was Rachel Reeves (for clarity, I am NOT) and if she was to listen to me (I'm sure she has better things to do), I would consider stepping up the cap at (say) a pound a year until it reached £5, from that point perhaps leaving it in place rather like it being a "regulated fare" ... and giving some help to those who, with some contention I suspect, we could describe as the "rural poor".    The balancing act is between a poorly targeted subsidy and a cost so much higher / spiking upwards that people don't use the buses, and a 'take' of £3 or £4 is far better than an empty seat bringing in £0.

 
May the Government might fudge the issue and withdraw the cap in large populated areas.

But retain it in the country areas,just a thought.

 
Don't forget that its also available to those with a disability, regardless of age.

 

I could certainly see the universal free bus pass being means tested in the same way as the Winter Fuel Payment.

 

And there you have the problem - how do you translate the economic case for the area served and all the public good done by public transport into a financial case in which the balance sheet for operating the service including any renewal an maintenance covers its costs at the least.

With the £2 bus fare being questioned, and with the winter fuel allowance being means tested, do members feel that there is a risk of other schemes that help people who are above the safety net - such as the ENCTS scheme - being curtailed, dropped, means tested, having a fixed (£2  ) charge per journey added, being limited to journeys starting in your own authority, etc.

 

I agree that "the cap" was intended to be a temporary measure.  In this country there has been a fixation that public transport should be self financing ie without support from the public purse.
If we the UK public want to have effective public transport that supports rural areas drives car usage then public transport will need support from the public purse, there should be a move to private companies paid on a contract with service level obligations model and not a franchise model which only seems to fund the bubbly at share holders meetings

 
The cap was never going to be sustainable long-term, as well as being a blunt tool not catering particularly well for example for people who had to use more than one bus for their journey. Cynically, I wonder if the implementers were fairly sure that withdrawing it would be someone else's problem.  I'm not convinced that it is maintaining the viability of a host of rural routes. There may well be more people travelling and it's helped people on lower incomes, but the overall revenue for the bus operators hasn't gone up significantly if at all; as I understand it that's pretty much how the reimbursement from the DfT is meant to work. 

Ideally a cap of some sort needs to stay in place just long enough to allow a far better scheme to support and encourage bus use to be designed and implemented.

 

Yes, but it might appear to be a slightly educated guess reading the smoke.  The flat fare gives the greatest benefit on longer more rural routes so was perhaps well tuned to woo voters in what were blue shires, and it would be convenient to dump the ire of it finishing onto the local authorities there.   There is probably a need to refactor / restructure and I do hope we don't end up with a complex system that varies across bus companies and LTA boundaries.

 

And that makes the thread title somewhat misleading. Perhaps add, "says The Telegraph"

 
From The Telegraph, via MSN


So, basically, they're guessing.


Edit note: ChrisB, I've added one additional character to the very first of your post, simply to make your link work.  CfN.

 
I had an email from Stagecoach on 26th June announcing price increases which came into effect on 1st July, including some single and return fares. Obviously if the £2 scheme ends then customers will be exposed to the higher prices in the new year. I've got no idea what the nominal fares would be for the journeys I could make as when I look them up they obviously come up as £2 at the moment. I will certainly be using the bus less if the scheme ends as some of the fares were way too high for me even before the unknown price rise last July.

 
The plan was for the cap to rise to £2.50 from 1st November 2023. But that was scrapped and it was kept at £2 until 31st December 2024.

 

I think it was to be £2 until (?) the end of 2023, then £2.50 through 2024.  But that might have been a bit of a vote looser, mightn't it?   It was another scheme which would / will be difficult to sustain long term unless someone at the top decides to grow public transport use by making it attractively cheap, even at cost to the treasury.

 
I thought that the previous Government had committed to the bus fare cap at £2 until the end of this year, followed by another year at £2.50?

From The Independent, via MSN

 
Notwithstanding my bus woes today (as told elsewhere), I too have made considerably more bus journeys since the fare cap came in.

 
Great to hear

I've actually use the local bus service more in the past two months that I did in the previous two years

 
The rise from £2 to £2.50 on 31st October will now not go ahead. To remain at £2 until December 2024.

 
I can't find the DfT's own version of the rules for the Bus Fare Cap Grant. This is from TransportXtra, who also reported the extension in May without any mention of alterations.

I'd guess that the amounts have been recalculated for any offer to operators for the extension.

 
I understood that the bus companies were being compensated for any lost revenue, though it's not clear to me how that is calculated.  Comparing with the previous year isn't realistic cos of the pandemic, changes to routes etc, and most drivers don't bother asking where you are going so it's not based on what price you would have paid which might have gone up by now anyway. No mention of how much the overall subsidy has cost in the press release, which actually raises more questions than it answers if you look at it in detail. The sentence about fares being comparable to 2007 particularly stands out. I would hope some of the media would ask for more background, but most will probably just copy and paste what amounts to a government promotional piece.

 
Bus fares in rural England drop 11% thanks to government's £2 fare cap
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/bus-fares-in-rural-england-drop-11-thanks-to-governments-2-fare-cap
How does this translate to the income of the companies who run the buses? I believe the number of rural bus routes has continued to decline this year.

 
Whenever I'm travelling around the UK I'm always glad when the local bus operator in a particular area is Go Ahead.

Miles *ahem* Ahead of First, Stagecoach or Arriva.

 
In Swindon we have Go-Ahead and Stagecoach.   I know which I prefer.  A modern fleet v an ageing one. 

 
I'd be more charitable than that! OBC have a knack for promotion and have shown they're willing to try and grow the business. Pulhams were lovely as independents, but I don't think I've ever seen a single piece of promotion for the X9 ("our" bus, Witney–Charlbury–Chipping Norton), and they only introduced card payment on it when OCC funded them to do so.

I'd pretty much resigned myself to the X9 being abandoned in a year or two and left for a community transport organisation to pick up. It may still happen but having the heft of OBC behind it gives it a fighting chance.

 
Possibly the only good thing of being acqured by by Go-Ahead/Oxford Bus Company?

 

You reckon it'll go to the wire? Seriously??

 
Very pleased to see that Pulhams are now joining the fare cap scheme following their acquisition by Go-Ahead/Oxford Bus Company.

 

I expect the £2.50 will extend until March 2025 if the election goes "to the wire".

 

1. Who is paying for the bus scheme?

2. Read me carefully - I said "appropriate" scheme not a £2.50 flat rail fare.  I would wonder if it may be more "who's going to guarantee it" that "who's going to pay for it", but then it could results in trains being overfilled, and cutbacks from 10 and 9 car to 5 car, etc, have reduced capacity and made for a system which is pruned towards reduced passenger levels.

 


Ooooooooos gonna pay for it?

 

What about an appropriate similar scheme for trains?   Sort out fares for the summer and keep extending?

 
The £2 bus fare cap scheme has been extended again. It will now run until the end of October 2023.

From 1st November 2023 the cap will rise to £2.50 for a further 13 months, to the end of November 2024.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65616182
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/2-bus-fare-cap

 
Just to add I've been using the bus more as a result and agree with Bmblbzzz, it's nice to know the fare will be £2 and not some randomly high amount. I know some operators publish single fares on their websites, but at least this way you don't have to look it up or get a nasty surprise when the driver tells you. Also makes comparing singles with day/rover tickets a bit easier when weighing up what's best value.

 
It was nice to break the news to a regular Stagecoach user the other day that this had been extended to the end of June. He was delighted (uses it to get to work). I got an email from them about the extension well after I learnt about it on here.

Just shows what can be done. It would be good if the gov't could suspend/abolish the minimum fare on railcards to compete a bit with this promotion.

 
More people using the bus because of the £2 limit
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65177420

 
As well as £80million further funding for the Bus Recivery grant too

 
The £2 fare cap scheme has been extended for another three months until the end of June 2023.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64678990

 
I took a bus on Saturday and was pleased to discover that on First buses in Bristol at least, you don't need to state anything. Just tap on, tap off. I was told by a regular bus user later that you don't have to tap out, but it can affect the fare. If you tap out, then take another (First) bus that day, your daily fare is capped at £3.50. If you don't tap out, it's just another £2 fare for each bus with no daily or weekly limit.

 
Definitely NOT if between operators - two tickets required.

Same operator - of course every bus does more than one trip a aday, moving from one route to another. These tickets aren't rovers, so a change of route number is very likely to mean a new service and another £2 ticket.

 

Qualified "yes".  We also have a case locally where the route number changes too at the split point, and I don't know what the status is on that.    And where the journey and change is between bus companies, it would be rare for the £2 to carry over - journeys such as Melksham to our main hospital in Bath, and from Trowbridge and Westbury to Salisbury which was the D1 until last year, when the D1 was truncated to Warminster and the Beeline 24 hurriedly commissioned to ensure the key bus network isn't broken.

 
If the bus continues to the end of route....if you have to change buses, it's down to the bus company's choice.

 
Many will be aware that some long distance journeys are split in the timetable to comply with Traffic Commissioner requirements regarding local bus services.

An example is the X5 from Swindon to Salisbury which splits at Pewsey.   I have confirmed with Salisbury Reds that despite that the £2 applies end to end.

I assume the same will apply for the 49 from Swindon to Trowbridge (which splits at Devizes) and the S6 from Swindon to Oxford (Faringdon).

 
Prevents you from using it as a rover-type ticket

 
I think it's a missed opportunity having to still ask for a ticket to your destination, rather than adopting a proper flat fare.

 
Experience bus users may chuckle, but for newcomers here is some "how to use the bus" advice from Stagecoach

 

Listed under "Cheltenham and Gloucester Omnibus Company Ltd" which is a Stagecoach operating company. Simples ;-)

 

Where in this list is the 49 from Trowbridge to Swindon? (Stagecoach)

 

Thanks Graham, I did find two of my bus routes I use included in the list with nothing so far on the companies' web sites. Might induce another couple of trips into Oxford for an afternoon pint. Always very pleasant.

 
Full list at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/2-bus-fare-cap - good example of a nice simple list - NOT!

 
...and talking of admin, I wonder if passengers will still have to state their destination and be issued with a ticket to the required fare point so the amount of reimbursement can be calculated, or if it will be done on some sort of average? I've failed to find anything online but presumably operators have been given details.

 
One of my local independents charges rather lower fares than the big outfits, and on the route I know best the fares don't get much above £2 anyway. Understandably they aren't taking part as the admin to reclaim the difference, and the overall benefit to passengers, really wouldn't be worth it.

 
I rarely travel by bus, but IMO one of the best aspects of this, as with the London bus fares, is that you don't need to ask. You just know it's going to be £2.

 
The £2 fare applies to all local bus services in Wiltshire.   That and much MUCH more in a Christmas update from "our Lee" who I am especially proud of ...


Links to http://option247.uk/christmas2022.html

 
More bus in east dorset west hampshire are participating, Yellowbuses are not as  they dont exist now!

 
The list of participating operators is missing some independents.

In Somerset/Dorset South West Coaches are participating.

Its probably worth checking with independents if they are not listed.

 
It's participating operators only, so although the big guys are all taking part, lots of the independents seem to have opted out - presumably, as with ENCTS, they're not being reimbursed the full amount by Government.

Locally both Stagecoach and Oxford Bus Co/Thames Travel are taking part, but I can't see any of the independents or CICs signed up. Stagecoach have (unsurprisingly!) excluded the Oxford Tube.

 

I do not believe there are any time restrictions. It's just possible that there are limits on night buses, and on things like the airport services in Bristol.     I don't know you can get a £2 fare on the 02:46 from Bristol Airport to the city centre, for example.

 
Looking at the Swindon Buses website, it says the offer is valid from start of service. 

 
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/2-bus-fare-cap

Its a good idea,but can't find out if there are restrictions on the early morning bus's.

 

AKA Two pound minimum fare 'cos in Bath it killed the three stop hop fare.

Mark

 
In Cornwall the any bus any operator anywhere adult all day ticket is £5 and family £10.

 
This is DfT's news item about this, from 3/9/22. It doesn't have all the details in it, instead it says they are still working on that:

 
A bus journey from here to Swindon Town Centre would be cheaper, but I hardly ever go there, so any journeys I do involve a change in the Town Centre so it would be 2 single journeys would it?

The 5 miles to the office would take 1 hour by bus with two buses  and a significant walk at the other end.  In the car I can do it in 10-15 minutes depending on the traffic.  I could actually walk it in 1.5 hours.

Yesterday I went to the hospital.  That would have been 2 bus journeys.  Although the bus journey is only 45-60 minutes, I would have had to leave half an hour earlier to get there on time due to the gaps in the timetable.  Similar problem on the way back.  So I would have to leave at 11:45 and get back at 2:46.  That's 3 hours for a 20 minute appointment.  By car I left at 12:45 and was back by 1:45. In addition to the fuel I had to pay £1.10 for the car park. 

That is why I don't use the buses. 

 
From The BBC


The first time I have such official government comment.  If funded, I would love to see it.

Questions

1. Does "local bus service" mean all journeys on any registered local bus service, or is there a new milage definition bearing in mind all the urban examples being given?  Typical bus journeys here in Wiltshire are 6 to 10 miles between towns and priced much higher that the £2.80 average

2. Do we know which operators have and have not signed up, and is there time for the remaining 10% to do so?  Is there a financial encouragement for them to do so?   If the there is such a financial encourgment, is there funding for it, or could it lead to the loss of supported but routes as local transport authorities struggle to balance the books?

 
Many bus services are being cut in the autumn following the withdrawal of government support. A £2 maximum fare is no good if you no longer have a bus service. I think that if the Government wants to help bus services and encourage the use of public transport, using the money to maintain existing services would be a far better idea

 
Swansea council has been providing free travel on local buses during certain periods (mostly school holidays and possibly some bank holiday periods etc). Generally it's been applied Fri-Mon, and applies to journeys starting before 7pm. Not sure how much the 7pm rule is enforced, and it's open to interpretation – "made a connection before 7pm, and it's a leg of the same journey" - in rail that would definitely form a journey under the contract, but I suspect each leg counts as a journey in the bus world. I think those who  use the bus for work (who may already have a weekly/monthly pass for the other days and therefore don't benefit, but might do if they are hybrid/part-time workers and able to flex their days) worry about crowding; the guidance is essentially to "plan" around buses being busy, i.e. "you're on your own if you don't fit on and there isn't a later option". I suspect the 7pm rule is partly about avoiding crowding out last buses/connections. It strictly applies to ordinary local buses (not P&R, long-distance etc) and to journeys entirely within the authority's area.

The advertised rationale is to encourage people to return to public transport post-Covid, but of course there are other benefits e.g. encouraging reduced car-use.

I'm wonder how the subsidy works – do the drivers count boarding passengers and the operator claim accordingly, or does the council provide a fixed subsidy based on the operator's expected usual income? Those with senior and other passes are expected to tap in as usual.

Some observations based on this, some of which would probably also apply to a subsidised low & flat fare:

• Certain buses (esp tourist routes) end up being crowded on key days, bearing in mind that there's no 'extra' provision, and probably insufficient resources to provide it. First, the dominant (but less than it was) local operator brought some routes back up to pre-Covid daytime levels, then reduced frequencies because of staffing issues (typically 4bph down to 3bph), and evening services have never returned to the old level.
• Dwell times are significantly reduced as most passengers are waved on.
• Many people aren't aware. I suspect most who are were aware before travelling knew because they already followed the council or a bus company on social media. The rest are surprised the first time they travel in the relevant offer period. And maybe then forget about it until the next time it happens, and are only reminded if they happen to travel then.


Perhaps with a low & flat fare, assuming the subsidy doesn't have some cap & collar arrangement, there would be enough additional demand generated to provide an improved service level to cater for the increased demand. Oh, dreaming again...

The dwell time improvement doesn't appear if people are paying a fixed fare. It would reduce some of the transaction time as the fare structure is significantly simplified, but if people would have bought a day ticket before, it could turn out that two singles now work out cheaper, so now they're paying on boarding both ways instead of once. On the other hand, if people just need to tap a debit card because they don't really need to specify a ticket in many cases (unless the day ticket still works out cheaper e.g. making several journeys that day) it's no slower than showing a day ticket.
.
I wonder how it would work for multi-leg journeys, especially where it's a long journey connecting with a short journey where most passengers are connecting. Would they have to pay twice, when the journey is no longer than some other journeys on the 'long journey' bus.

The awareness issue would probably have a different dynamic if the cheap fares last longer than one holiday period, and all days of the week – much more opportunity for the public to catch on, especially if nation-wide.

 
This has been doing the rounds since early July (see https://busandtrainuser.com/2022/07/03/to-cap-it-all-a-2-limit/ for more).  Broadly it would mean a flat £2 fare for all journeys and might be simpler done like that; I can't remember the last time I paid less than £2 for a bus journey anywhere outside London. It does seem rather over-generous for longer journeys when something like a blanket 50% reduction on all journeys might achieve similar results with less subsidy. 

I wonder if he has discussed any possible negative side-effects or alternative approaches with those in the industry or with passenger representatives?  On second thoughts I don't wonder at all. Of course he hasn't.

 
And of course this is not the UK, only England. Nice idea though.

 

It may matter - it may influence whether he remains in post, is promoted, demoted or fired.  And that will affect not only him, but the departments involved, way into the future.   At this point, he 'needs' to play to Sunak, Truss and their teams of advisors.

 
I get the impression that Shapps has been more active, verbally at least, since Johnson stepped down than in his previous three years as Minister of Transport. And for the same reason, does it matter what he says now? Whoever takes over as new PM will have their own preferred ministers.

 
The only problem with a 'one year cap' it only makes it worse once the cap runs out.  If he is serious about public transport, then he needs to put decent public spend into supporting it long term ...............

But then he is an opportunist like all politicians just looking after his own career

 
Good photo. looks as though he has just bitten the wrong sort of pickle!

 
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/bus-fares-could-limited-2-27747026