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Pacers are no more.
As at 21st November 2024 17:19 GMT
 
Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by broadgage at 14:42, 3rd March 2024
 
Sounds a potentially useful idea, but I doubt the suitability of a single car for most likely routes, the passenger capacity is less than that of many buses.
Presumably a two car unit could be produced, this should be cheaper per seat than a single car.

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by grahame at 11:45, 2nd March 2024
 
From the Shropshire Star

The 'secret' train being tested in Shropshire that could revolutionise rural rail journeys

Deep in the heart of the Ironbridge Power Station site, a futuristic-looking train glides along in almost total silence.

[snip]

Those behind it say it "reduces all aspects of operating costs" on branch lines.

[snip]

The role of Revolution is to extend the outreach of the railway, principally helping to achieve modal shift from road to rail, which we all know is needed for the UK to meet its climate change obligations," explained Tim. "It's really a vehicle that is optimised for relatively short operations on segregated branch lines that run into mainline railways.

[snip]
The demonstration vehicle has 56 seats, which is said to often be more than enough for the shorter routes it's designed to run on. This would release longer, heavier trains, to be redeployed in busier areas where the extra seats and standing room they'd provide would be needed.

For those wanting to reopen a railway, Revolution VLR is said to be the answer. Tim explained that by being lighter, the vehicle would not subject any older track still in place to the same stresses as a traditional train, which could allow a railway to be reopened "under budget and ahead of schedule", or in stages.

One of the benefits the train is being tested at Ironbridge is putting that theory to the test; it's been 60 years since the site last saw passenger trains, and coming up to a decade since the last coal trains served the now-demolished power station. Since then, the track has been left in place, but with minimal work it's able to take the weight of Revolution VLR.

Looking at our GWR area and a little beyond, unused / freight only potentially detached branch lines strike me as relatively few - Andover to Ludgershall and perhaps Bedminster to Pill and Newton Abbot to Heathfield and Okehampton to Meldon Platform. Others could be heritage lanes when no heritage trains running - Paignton to Kingswear, Totnes to Buckfastleigh, Alton to Alresford, Lyndney to Parkend and Bodmin Parkway to Town.  The expense of bringing a notnetwork service onto the mainline is illustrated by the extraordinary lengths the Swanage folks have gone to and with mainline running there would be heritage potential to Swanage and to Minehead.  Freight branches that connect with the mainline without interchanges shy of the junction include Cwm Bargoed, two lines into Tondu, Fowey and Thornbury.  But ... some such as Parkend and Cwm Bargoed would be journeys to nowhere and others such as Swanage and Minehead would be hard pressed to cope with a single carriage train. 

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by johnneyw at 23:21, 16th September 2022
 
What would be the cost of buying these units?

I don't know if the Weardale railway website has any details on this but it might appear later in their published annual accounts.

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by infoman at 07:47, 16th September 2022
 
What would be the cost of buying these units?

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by johnneyw at 18:36, 15th September 2022
 
As a quick update on the Pacers in preservation, it seems that the units that went to the Wensleydale Railway have now been purchased by the Weardale railway.  A few more details below.

https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2022/09/weardale-railway-purchases-wensleydale-railway-based-class-142-pacer-train.html

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by stuving at 11:21, 10th October 2021
 
Compliant with what standard?

What I meant was - does being a very light rail mean there is a reduced requirement for crash resistance or is it expected to acheive the same as heavy rail?

They seem to have ducked that question. As a demonstrator it can be made without formal requirements in all areas, on a "lets see how far we can go with the innovative bits" basis. The trials are planned to use "a segregated alignment (a route protected from interaction with roads, cars and other traffic)". I note that the design includes actual buffers, no doubt to put some explicit energy absorption mechanism into a composite structure that provides very little implicitly.

Going back to the subject of bogies, not resolved earlier on, they are not using any fancy new carbon-fibre ones. That was a parallel project with its own timescale and timescale risks, so I can see they would not want to be coupled to it. If that works it would no doubt give a further weight reduction.

They are in fact using the LN25 bogie, which is basically the same old TF25 bogie used on big goods wagons since 2001. It's made by Axiom, originally Powell Duffryn rail and now part of Wabtec Faively. So I don't imagine it's at all light, even before they attached motors and/or couplings to it.

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by ellendune at 08:19, 10th October 2021
 
The RLVR vehicle now has a Demonstrator setup at Ironbridge.

https://transportdesigninternational.com/launching-revolution-very-light-rail-rvlr/

What is its crash resistance like?

As it has RSSB, DfT backing I would expect it to be fully compliant.

Compliant with what standard?

What I meant was - does being a very light rail mean there is a reduced requirement for crash resistance or is it expected to acheive the same as heavy rail?

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by Electric train at 07:51, 10th October 2021
 
The RLVR vehicle now has a Demonstrator setup at Ironbridge.

https://transportdesigninternational.com/launching-revolution-very-light-rail-rvlr/

What is its crash resistance like?

As it has RSSB, DfT backing I would expect it to be fully compliant.

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by ellendune at 19:53, 9th October 2021
 
The RLVR vehicle now has a Demonstrator setup at Ironbridge.

https://transportdesigninternational.com/launching-revolution-very-light-rail-rvlr/

What is its crash resistance like?

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by TonyN at 15:10, 9th October 2021
 
The RLVR vehicle now has a Demonstrator setup at Ironbridge.

https://transportdesigninternational.com/launching-revolution-very-light-rail-rvlr/

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by grahame at 21:18, 9th June 2021
 
I can the merit in lightweight bus-like rail vehicles for secondary routes
The problem is that so many of the obvious routes for this sort of thing were shut down in the 60s. Neath Riverside to Hereford via Brecon is the one that immediately springs to mind for me. I'd quite enjoy a ride up to Brecon or Hay in something like that.

I worry about routes that only support single vehicle trains - the Bubble cars used to be known as "Coffin Nails" because the next step was closure.  But I am VERY thankful for the 153s that ran on the TransWilts for a handful of years until our traffic outgrew them.

Wouldn't it be lovely to see some re-openings in Wales - and some growth on existing lines - but really the aspiration should be a traffic level to require trains of 2 carriages at least.   I'm noting that Prof Stuart Cole, who knows a thing or four about trains and buses, advocates a rise to a two hourly service on the Heart of Wales, and with something at least twice as long as a 153.

As part routes providing the outer end, or where multiple routes fan out, there might just be a place for these - Swansea to Clarbeston Road where the hourly train divides, portions to Fishguard, Milford Haven and Neyland perhaps?

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by Bmblbzzz at 20:50, 9th June 2021
 
Toilets are in my view a requirement even for very short journeys, and that in turn means a disabled toilet, which suggests the need for either two vehicles or a long and articulated vehicle.
I agree on the need for toilets. However, I question whether that means a need for two vehicles. It's not a case of "toilet" and "disabled toilet"; a toilet accessible to the disabled will also be accessible to the abled. The rail-bus simply needs to be a reasonable size to have one toilet accessible to all, and many or most coaches manage this in a length of 12 metres, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by jamestheredengine at 20:31, 9th June 2021
 
I can the merit in lightweight bus-like rail vehicles for secondary routes
The problem is that so many of the obvious routes for this sort of thing were shut down in the 60s. Neath Riverside to Hereford via Brecon is the one that immediately springs to mind for me. I'd quite enjoy a ride up to Brecon or Hay in something like that.

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by broadgage at 15:31, 8th June 2021
 
I can the merit in lightweight bus-like rail vehicles for secondary routes, including commuter services on the Minehead branch and similar places.
Toilets are in my view a requirement even for very short journeys, and that in turn means a disabled toilet, which suggests the need for either two vehicles or a long and articulated vehicle.

I appreciate that most buses do not have toilets, but bus passengers can alight to relieve themselves, whereas the policy on trains is "keep them on the trains no matter what" Remember the Lewisham stranding and the appalling conditions suffered by victims on board trains "that don't need toilets for journeys of less than 30 minutes"

With the concerns about climate change, I agree that we should not be building any more rail vehicles with diesel engines, with the possible exception of nominally electric vehicles with a small diesel engine for use when the wires come down.
Battery power is now a realistic alternative.

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by stuving at 23:23, 3rd June 2021
 
This does not look like anything other than an early days start up - it shares its office address with Startford upon Avon Citizens Advice Bureau.

Could there be something more useful if they were designed to be two car units, with perhaps a capacity of 120+ (assuming that space released by deleting inner cabs is released for seats)?

We'll know that it's a chimera when the next Go-op proposal is for them to be used on their next wishful route proposal..........

More relevantly, the address is that of loads of companies linked to Rupert Symons, a patent agent, and  director of VLR Technologies Ltd. All the real work will be done in the various collaborating companies, which are:
    TDI
    EVERSHOLT RAIL
    WMG
    CUMMINS
    RDM GROUP
    TRANSCAL
    RSSB
    PROSE

Eversholt talk as if they expect to buy the final product in numbers, but describe the first one as a demonstrator - so we still don't know how close they think that is to a real product. Cummins's presence may explain the use of diesel power, though perhaps not the lack of future decarbonic alternatives. They (Cummins) are thinking quite hard about their strategy in this area, though seem to be uncertain as to what will work in trains in the future. 
 

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by eightonedee at 22:13, 3rd June 2021
 
This does not look like anything other than an early days start up - it shares its office address with Startford upon Avon Citizens Advice Bureau.

Could there be something more useful if they were designed to be two car units, with perhaps a capacity of 120+ (assuming that space released by deleting inner cabs is released for seats)?

We'll know that it's a chimera when the next Go-op proposal is for them to be used on their next wishful route proposal..........

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by Surrey 455 at 18:10, 3rd June 2021
 
Just when you thought the idea of cheap, light, buslike trains was dead - along come some new ones!

I expect there would be a cab at both ends but it's not obvious from any of the images or text that I've seen.

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by grahame at 05:43, 3rd June 2021
 
The problem I see with those is that at least a couple of them would be better used not being shuttles:
* Beyond Paignton: just extend the proper trains through to Kingswear. People aren't going to ride the trains if they're going to have to change even to get to Torquay.
* Tytherington? That's one where relaying a short distance of track back into Thornbury would make the line's business case significantly better. And it could be better still as an extension of existing Bristol local services currently terminating at Bristol Parkway.

I agree with those but I chose to suggest very short runs.  And for balance reasons.

For example, as soon as you extend Churston to Newton Abbot, you'll unbalance loadings - a single carriage train that does well from Churston to Paignton would likely overload Paignton to Newton Abbot.  As a shuttle with a driver (would it be DOO?) for just one carriage, in itself it would likely be a loss leader but in combination with a 4 car connection onwards it would feed passengers into seats that were already running and help the bring in extra money - an overall better business case.

Rather sadly (?) it might be better to simply extend the 4 cars on to Churston and the Revolution VLR would then look like a solution looking for a problem.

 

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by stuving at 00:19, 3rd June 2021
 
Just when you thought the idea of cheap, light, buslike trains was dead - along come some new ones!

PROPULSION SYSTEM        Diesel electric hybrid battery system

So diesel, then. That is my main reservation. Hybrid cars are being given the heave-ho 5 years after petrol / diesel cars, despite not being particularly "green". Allowing hybrid new-build trains would seem counter-intuitive.

Well, this one is. But its relationship with any train actually built is not that direct. It's not even a prototype - it's a demonstrator of very lightness. So its power source is there to make it move about a bit, without itself demonstrating anything.

But there is an odd point about the description they give: it doesn't separate the elements being demonstrated, those also realistically representing its intended use (like the interior), and those there just so it's got one while being demonstrated (the engine). So which of those covers its top speed of 60 mph?

I should add that, on rereading, the carbon fibre bogie is a separate project, and the words don't actually say the VLR train uses them. And if they are showing off its low weight, why don't they say what it weighs? Or, if they won't know exactly until it's finished (but then that's true of production trains!), what's the target?

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by TonyK at 23:55, 2nd June 2021
 
Just when you thought the idea of cheap, light, buslike trains was dead - along come some new ones!

PROPULSION SYSTEM        Diesel electric hybrid battery system

So diesel, then. That is my main reservation. Hybrid cars are being given the heave-ho 5 years after petrol / diesel cars, despite not being particularly "green". Allowing hybrid new-build trains would seem counter-intuitive.

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by stuving at 21:07, 2nd June 2021
 
Just when you thought the idea of cheap, light, buslike trains was dead - along come some new ones!

Big question which I don't see in the text - 4 wheels or 8?

Looks like the sort out the equality access for loos on a single coach train by levelling down - no loo for anyone?" Business case ... line extensions and re-openings" it says. Likely good to try on existing freight lines and perhaps for the peak contra-flow train on line with one ended peak traffic ... sorry to sound so negative.   Possibly short and frequent routes?

There's more details - e.g. in their brochure. But it does have carbon-fibre composite bogies, if that helps. This if from an RSSB newlsetter:
The CaFiBo Carbon Fibre Bogie project has completed testing of its prototype, using the Huddersfield Adhesion and Rolling Contact Laboratory Dynamic test rig (Harold). The bogie weighs 350kg, compared to 936kg for the current steel version. All in, with steel fitting and fixings, there is a 36 per cent weight saving over a standard bogie. The design uses sustainable recycled carbon fibre and is compatible with existing hardware. Remote condition monitoring equipment is integrated into the design.   

Used across the GB fleet, the bogie could save an estimated £11.5 billion over a 35-year lifespan, from reductions in energy use and lower track access charges. The team also estimates a cut of 2.3 million tons of CO2 over the same period. Further enhancements will be possible through component integration, such as integrated suspension, and the bogie could be part of the design of lightweight passenger and freight vehicles.   

Of the interior, they are much vaguer, as you might expect at this stage. But the ideas include:
INTERIOR
  • Air conditioned
  • Personal device charging facilities
  • Comfortable contemporary interior design
  • Seats 56 passengers, overall capacity of 120 passengers
  • Wheelchair facility for persons of reduced mobility

CONFIGURATIONS
  • Multiple vehicle layout options
  • Luggage / bicycle / ski / surfboard storage facilities

I wonder how many surfboards you can fit in ... or toilets, come to that.

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by jamestheredengine at 20:46, 2nd June 2021
 
Just when you thought the idea of cheap, light, buslike trains was dead - along come some new ones!

Big question which I don't see in the text - 4 wheels or 8?

Looks like the sort out the equality access for loos on a single coach train by levelling down - no loo for anyone?" Business case ... line extensions and re-openings" it says. Likely good to try on existing freight lines and perhaps for the peak contra-flow train on line with one ended peak traffic ... sorry to sound so negative.   Possibly short and frequent routes?

* Paignton to Churston, early morning, late afternoon into evening and all day in winter?
* Bodmin Parkway to Bodmin General shuttle
* Taunton to Minehead, the contra-flow train in the hourly pattern (3 car needed for peak)
* Extras to Gunnislake - the contraflow (passing at Bere Alston)
* Yate to Iron Acton and Tytherington shuttle
* Mendip Vale to Witham, Frome and Westbury
* Castle Cary to Yeovil Junction via Sparkford, Queen Camel and Yeovil Pen Mill

Political will needed - unlikely that any of those would make a good profit but each potentially excellent for the area served?

The problem I see with those is that at least a couple of them would be better used not being shuttles:
* Beyond Paignton: just extend the proper trains through to Kingswear. People aren't going to ride the trains if they're going to have to change even to get to Torquay.
* Tytherington? That's one where relaying a short distance of track back into Thornbury would make the line's business case significantly better. And it could be better still as an extension of existing Bristol local services currently terminating at Bristol Parkway.

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by grahame at 20:32, 2nd June 2021
 
Just when you thought the idea of cheap, light, buslike trains was dead - along come some new ones!

Big question which I don't see in the text - 4 wheels or 8?

Looks like the sort out the equality access for loos on a single coach train by levelling down - no loo for anyone?" Business case ... line extensions and re-openings" it says. Likely good to try on existing freight lines and perhaps for the peak contra-flow train on line with one ended peak traffic ... sorry to sound so negative.   Possibly short and frequent routes?

* Paignton to Churston, early morning, late afternoon into evening and all day in winter?
* Bodmin Parkway to Bodmin General shuttle
* Taunton to Minehead, the contra-flow train in the hourly pattern (3 car needed for peak)
* Extras to Gunnislake - the contraflow (passing at Bere Alston)
* Yate to Iron Acton and Tytherington shuttle
* Mendip Vale to Witham, Frome and Westbury
* Castle Cary to Yeovil Junction via Sparkford, Queen Camel and Yeovil Pen Mill

Political will needed - unlikely that any of those would make a good profit but each potentially excellent for the area served?

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by stuving at 19:17, 2nd June 2021
 
Just when you thought the idea of cheap, light, buslike trains was dead - along come some new ones!

From Revolution VLR:
The project combines extensive rail industry expertise with a range of additional, leading edge innovations from other relevant industries. Revolution utilises both automotive sector lightweight composite structure and hybrid power-train technologies combined with railway-proven systems that will ensure robustness and reliability in the operating environment.

This strategy is focused on providing rail scheme sponsors with a high-quality, affordable and sustainable solution that will facilitate achievement of Government commitments to decarbonisation and assist the business cases for line extensions and re openings.

PASSENGER CAPACITY       56 seated passengers
MAX SPEED                      60 mph
PROPULSION SYSTEM        Diesel electric hybrid battery system
DIMENSIONS                     Length 18.5m, width 2.8m, height 3.8m
ACCESS                           4 single leaf sliding plug doors
DRIVE SYSTEMS                Modal propulsion systems

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by broadgage at 05:07, 2nd June 2021
 
Although not much liked, they are an important part of railway history and I hope that a few will be preserved.

Around 20 Class 142 units are already in preservation with various heritage railways/museums across the UK. I believe a 143 is headed to the Swindon & Cricklade Railway. No doubt several more 143s will find their way into preservation. Fifteen Class 144s are already with heritage operators.

Had no idea that it was that many, thanks for the update.

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by JayMac at 01:50, 2nd June 2021
 
Although not much liked, they are an important part of railway history and I hope that a few will be preserved.

Around 20 Class 142 units are already in preservation with various heritage railways/museums across the UK. I believe a 143 is headed to the Swindon & Cricklade Railway. No doubt several more 143s will find their way into preservation. Fifteen Class 144s are already with heritage operators.

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by TonyK at 16:57, 1st June 2021
 
Let's hope that it makes it to the scrapyard.

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by broadgage at 10:15, 1st June 2021
 
Nasty things.
Better a pacer than no train though.
I think they should have kept them for at least the rest of this summer and perhaps a bit longer. Over 50 short formations today, and a few pacers for branch line services would help a bit.

Although not much liked, they are an important part of railway history and I hope that a few will be preserved.

Possibly still useful as a very cheap way of introducing new services ? A pacer railbus from Minehead to Taunton would be a lot better than no train, and also an improvement over an actual bus. In the longer term, a battery train would be preferable for such a service, but pacers are cheap and available right now.

Re: Pacers are no more.
Posted by Bmblbzzz at 10:12, 1st June 2021
 
Nice little video but no; give us bogies please!

Pacers are no more.
Posted by JayMac at 23:53, 31st May 2021
 
The 28th May 2021 marked the final day of passenger operation for the Pacer family of DMUs. A couple of Transport for Wales Class 143 units were out trundling, bouncing and squealing around the South Wales Valley Lines.

No fanfare, no day of celebration, no special railtours. No need!

Will they be missed? Will we look back on them with nostalgia in the future? I think their only legacy is that they may have saved some routes and services from closure or withdrawal in the 1980s. Beyond that I think they outstayed their welcome.

Geoff Marshall, of All the Stations fame, was one of very few enthusiasts who were out marking the 'occasion'.

 
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