Each of the 3 times I've caught it this week it has departed Salisbury on time at 0635, but has accumulated delays through Warminster, Westbury and Trowbridge to end up being at least 4 mins late by the time it reaches me at Melksham.

No, 4 mins isn't that bad, but it means I (and others) miss my unofficial connection at Chippenham, where its departure time of 0731 is 3 mins before the Paddington - Weston-super-Mare 0734 that I catch to Bristol, ideally. Missing that means hanging around Chippenham station for ~30 mins for the next 0809 Bristol service (the official connection).

I would normally expect to catch the 0734 at least 2 out of 3 times per week, and I think missing it 3 times in a row is a first.

Anyone know if there is anything going on that might explain this eg. engineering work?

 
If it's losing time gradually, like it did this morning, then it could well be time of the year.  It's slippery and often takes a bit longer to accelerate this time of year, and also drivers are instructed to reduce speeds approaching red signals to 10mph, 200 metres away, rather than the usual 20mph. 

That all accumulates over the course of a whole trip, and I note that it only has 1 minute of recovery time on that near hour long section of the journey.

 
Mmm ok, but this didn't happen last year (3 times in a row). Might just be chance of course.

 

I will go with "leaf slip season" ...

It is due to arrive at Chippenham at 07:30 - so you are supposed to have 4 minutes and it's a classic case that illustrates where just a delay that is ordinarily trivial becomes something serious.

Interestingly, when there were engineering works between Swindon and Gloucester, the Paddington to Weston-super-mare train made an extra call at Didcot, and as a result left Chippenham 2 minutes later at 07:36, becoming an official connection for those weeks.   That could not be a permanent change because there's a Paddington to Cheltenham Spa right behind it at Didcot, but there's no problem further west (not at Bathampton now onward) and it has a 12 minute wait at Temple Meads before going on to Weston.

I asked GWR if the express could be timed to sit a minute or two less at Bristol, and a minute or 2 in platform 4 at Swindon and - well - they looked at me as if I had grown horns.  Apparently that would slow down the London to Bristol timing and be a very major degradation of service indeed, and cannot be done on a permanent basis.  Pity, because it would save Melksham to Bath (and Bristol) passengers 35 minutes on their official commute.   Perhaps that's the real reason for not doing it - the Delay/Repay claims?

 
For readers of this thread - if the train from Melksham is arriving into Chippenham a couple of minutes late, passengers in the know are watching out for the departing train to Bristol as they pull in ... and there is an almighty scramble across the platform to transfer if it's still there, before the doors get locked.   Can't be safe. In the interest of safety (good card to play  ) could the Bristol train have one of those rare "hold" orders on it such that if the train coming up from Melksham has to cross in front of it anyway, it connects?   If the train from Melksham is so late that the Bristol train crosses first, fair enough.

P.S. The train from London leaves Reading - last stop before Swindon - before 7 a.m. - how busy is it that early in the morning with passengers travelling to Chippenham and beyond?

 
Until moving to Melksham in 2016 I used to commute to Bath from Reading (Earley actually) 3 days a week, catching what was the 0726. And that was great; hardly anyone on it, until a load boarded at Chippenham. I suspect the pre-7 (the 0656 in my day) would be even quieter.

Only problem was I had to buy advance tickets a couple of months beforehand to bring the cost down from over £100 to something under £30 IIRC. No digital option in those days so always had a pile of tickets waiting to used

 
If the train does happen to depart Melksham on time, it's even more frustrating when it gets held up by the late running Bristol-Paddington service, due to depart Chippenham at 0726...

 

And it's that Paddington express which prevents it running earlier to increase the margin THAT way ... quite apart from it being threaded through Westbury!

edit to add Westbury comment

 

Might that minute or two extra delay potentially cause a safety problem at Bristol Temple Meads as passengers rush to try and make the unofficial connection towards Gloucester at 08:06? 

 
Reading Real Time Trains, the 4 minutes (so unofficial) connection missed again yesterday by between 30 and 45 seconds. The delay to the 06:35 from Salisbury was picked up in the short stretch from Westbury to Trowbridge - on a 7 minute schedule from arriving Westbury to leaving Trowbridge yesterday took 12.  It was back on time when it departed Swindon, but of course that's too late in its journey for the Chippenham connection.

The train that left Chippenham spot on time as the train from Melksham pulled in arrived a minute early into Bristol at 08:02.    The next train to Bristol from Chippenham arrived there at 08:39 - 3 minutes late.

Edit to correct - the words had not come out right this morning and the original was unclear and incomplete - my apologies to members who were trying to work out what I meant!

 
Typing this in Chippenham station waiting room... yep, late again. 6 minutes at Melksham, made some of that up I think so pulled into Chippenham just as the Bristol train was pulling out. Great

 

Oh dear ... please keep logging.  The Coffee Shop will not get any "official action" on this frustrating issue, but it does keep it bubbling along and we are read.   No promises of a result, but a promise to try further for a practical change.

 
A question for our rail experts.   The standard interchange time between trains is 5 minutes but there are exceptions around - here's an example from a timetable showing a whole cluster of them.



Why?   Well - 10 minutes to change in Brighton makes sense. It's a big station and arriving from Lewes and leaving for Worthing is a bit of a walk around - it has to make sense.  On the other hand, Worthing and Chichester don't need as long, and it's amazingly short at Hove.

For Swindon, arriving on platform 4 and leaving on 2 and even the five minutes may be tight.  For Bath Spa, with long sets of steps or queues for the lifts, again it makes sense.  And both Trowbridge and Westbury can involve a change or platform too so you can sorta-get the logic.   But why on earth is it 5 minutes at Chippenham - an island platform when all changes are cross-platform, or to a following train on the same track? 

 
No idea when Chippenham's other platforms were taken out of use, perhaps the 5 minutes dates from past times.

Mark

 
There used to be a line running to Calne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chippenham_and_Calne_line which the disused platform served.

Missed the connection again today; that's 5 times in a row now (for my commute). Doors on the 0734 Bristol train closed as we pulled in  Probably would have been ok if we hadn't got held up behind the late running Paddington service.

Something a bit odd this morning - the Salisbury-Worcester train departed on time, and was only a minute late when I caught it at Melksham. But by then the National Rail app was saying 'This train has been delayed by train crew being delayed' 

 

This is getting ludicrous.  Are you coming along tomorrow (14:30 or 18:30 at The Campus) - not a bad idea to have dealing with this on the agenda of ideas.   Something we can apply some gentle pressure on to get a few seconds hold on a train that doesn't conflict with anything else on its way into Bristol and just sits there for 10 minutes ...

I am minded of all those signs we see around these days saying "don't abuse our staff and be considerate of them" ... but apparently it's OK for staff who are 'just following the rules' to take inconsiderate actions like locking train doors in passenger's faces.    Please take that as a comment on modern society and how things are managed, and not on individual operational staff.

 

It wasn't [always] that simple.  I recall that at one time, the out of use platform was the main line towards Bristol, and the centre platform where the Bristol line now runs was two terminal platforms - one in each direction.   That arrangement was taken out to simplify the track and to allow faster non-stop running on a straighter line. 

Times have changed again and all regular scheduled trains (I think) now call at Chippenham - there may be just one early Sunday morning train London to Penzance that's routed via Swindon and Westbury that does not.  Perhaps it would make sense to re-instate the 3rd platform as the main through road, with the current Bristol platform having access at both ends off both lines - a "W" arrangement.  Provide a lay-by in either direction, and a terminal platform in either direction that can be entered and left without effecting trains in the other direction.  I believe there may be a precedent for this layout at Arnos Grove.

 
Thanks for the heads up - will try to make the 1830.

I don't know where else you have publicized it, but might be worth mentioning it on the Nextdoor website if you haven't already. Seems to be quite popular: https://nextdoor.co.uk/

 

It's already on "Next Door" - BUT there is so much material out there that it's hit and miss whether you'll see it.    Also on Facebook, signs in the bus stops, various group emails, and in the Melksham News.   Past members have been emailed and community transport contacts and both Melksham Town and Melksham Without have helped spread the word.   

There is so much news / information out there these days that there are going to be people missed ... I recall when I was on the SCOB (Shadow Campus Operation Board) we counted ten publicity channels and still had people say "we hadn't heard" ... and in those days / on that group we had a budget where we could spend a few £ to reach people.

Could always do more ... at this point, please tell friends, familiy, colleagues and even people you don't like but could work alongside ;-) ... I am in process of getting final stuff together ...

 

P.S.   I sometimes publicise things through my LinedIn account too, and through TravelWatch SouthWest and other regional and industry feeds.  As a meeting for the Melksham Community to look at getting our own house in partnership and campaigning order for the future, I have chosen not to shout loudly about these particular meetings at those places.  Anyone welcome - but I would hate industry /operato and regional specialists to turn up and be disappointed at the more local nature of the proceedings.

 

Most of last week apparently there was a temporary speed restriction delaying trains into Trowbridge from Westbury - it’s been removed now I understand.

 
Ah - well I guess that would explain it, and today's delay wasn't on that line. Thanks for the info

I'm going to be working from home next week due to the absence of direct Chippenham/Bath-Bristol trains. (The official route if I catch the usual 0721 Salisbury-Worcester service at Melksham is to continue on to Swindon before changing to one that goes to Bristol Temple Meads via Bristol Parkway I think. At least there's no bus replacements )

 
Made it!! 6th time lucky

Only by the skin of my teeth though; 3 minutes late departing Melksham so I didn't rate our chances, but those were improved by the Paddington train being cancelled (shortage of train crew) so no additional delays into Chippenham. Boarded the Bristol train moments before the doors closed.

 



But it really should NOT be this game and big smileys as to whether a daily commute works!

Image from ... https://www.trophiesplusmedals.co.uk/fun-smiley-face-centre ... where you can buy them as stickers

 
This is exactly why it isn't a booked connection though.

 

If you're saying that to make it a connection by adjusting the time of the Bristol train (or putting a short "hold" order on it if the supposed incoming connection was crossing in front of it) would be operationally inconvenient, yeah, I agree. But the railway is there for the passengers not for the convenience of those who run them. 

And, yes, were it a booked connection (and it would be at so many other stations that have same-platform connections - see my Hove / Worthing / Chichester example upthread) without a hold order, it could get expensive on delay/repay.  But I can't help feeling that the tail is wagging the dog on this one.

 
With respect, there may ne a good reason that these trains aren't a booked connection - maybe it makes an important connection in Bristol say? More people are likely to need that to work than the odd (Sorry Mat, I'm sure you aren't, but you know what I mean) customer might be making a connection from Melksham. Trains make connections all over the network, and these connections have to be prioritised, of course.

 

With respect, Chris, these issues have been raised and addressed already in this thread for this particular "connection".  The little matter of why Chippenham remains a "5 minutes needed to change" station when it's just a single Island has been conveniently overlooked.  It seems to come down to "we can't run trains reliably and it would cost us too much in delay/repay to make them a connection in any of the three ways suggested by the customer'.  There are times I feel that we are having wool pulled over our eyes, and perhaps this is one of them - done this time by applying blanket rules to which there are exceptions elsewhere to justify the status quo.

 

Passenger journeys between Melksham and Bath / Bristol by train are over 12,000 per annum, and those are the 3rd and 5th most popular destinations from Melksham, even though a change of trains is required.  In fact they are the two most popular destinations beyond the TransWilts service - even more than London, Salisbury, Warminster ...

 
Having travelled that way a couple of times in the past, both missed, the first one because the Melksham train came alongside at Chippenham a little late and the connecting train was leaving.

The second time, a little late but less so, and the Melksham train sat at the platform for a full minute until the Bristol train's doors locked at which point we were allowed off (and the Bristol train then sat, doors locked, for what felt like another minute.)

That second event event caused me to mutter the words of a friend's father (whose work included being deployed to various ports and commercial docks along the south coast...)

"GWR always made sure they never connected with anything".

(Things seemed to have progressed that day, in that case they didn't connect with themselves...)

Mark

 
To be fair to FGW, 3 of those misses were mainly due to the speed restriction (reported by brooklea) around Westbury.

 
Picking up on a post in the TransWilts thread

I also note this

So the unofficial connection at Chippenham will certainly not ‘make’ this morning as the Worcester train is going to run behind the diverted Plymouth - Paddington. Looking at the OpenTrainTimes signalling map, it appears the Worcester train is being held-back at Westbury so the line towards Bath isn’t blocked at Bradford Junction while it waits to go onto the single line to Melksham.

 

Just left Westbury and switched from "Delayed" to "07:36" on the board at Melksham

Where there's a quarter hour delay, it does nit make sense to try and maintain the connection, as this morning.

 
Yep, in a Chippenham station waiting room now

When I first looked at the National Rail app (~0540) the service was completely cancelled and I'd started making alternative arrangements. Was going to catch the 271 bus and would probably have made it to Bath in time to pick up the train I've missed at Chippenham. Oh well...

 
Took the bus to Bath this morning, and very glad I did. I believe the first **4** services from Paddington to Bristol via Chippenham were cancelled due to either overrunning engineering works or crew shortages.

I was able to catch the little 0752 Filton Abbey Wood service from Bath instead of the mainline 0747 Weston-super-Mare I'd usually catch from Chippenham at 0734 so it didn't affect me too much. A colleague who lives in Chippenham who usually catches the 0711 had to wait for the 0832 in the absence of the 0711, 0734 and 0809 (and earlier 0633). Unsurprisingly he told me that the 0832 when it arrived was a tad busy

 

Exactly what we need to do in the event of disruption.  Not sure whether you just knew what to do or whether online systems sold you? 

Come December 24th to January 24th closure, we have asked Great Western to arrange with Faresaver to accept train tickets on the 271/272/273 as well as just the x34 from Mellksham and the two companies have got together again and agreed this extra.  It's a pretty small concession to the decimation of our services again, but at least it's something.   And we do have one peak train rather than zero.

 
Luck. I need to be home a bit earlier on Mondays, but not leave work too early, and the train to Bath then bus to Melksham is the only way to do that. Even so, in the past I've still always caught the train from Melksham in the morning. But last week I used the bus to Bath instead of the Melksham-Chippenham bus replacement train service, and it seemed to work pretty well. So given that it also saves about £3 it seemed daft not to.

 
Lucky again this morning. Well, lucky it wasn't any worse...

Woke up early so decided to catch the 0632 Southampton service from Melksham, to get to Bristol via Trowbridge. Looked to be running fine when I left the house, but by the time I got to Melksham, it was delayed, meaning I'd miss the train I was planning on catching at Trowbridge.

Initially I thought I'd wait anyway, and catch the next train at Trowbridge. But I checked it, and it was also showing as 'delayed'.

So I kept walking and caught the 271 bus from Market Place, ending up in Bath in time to catch the Weston-super-Mare service I would have caught at Chippenham if I'd gone for the usual 0721 Melksham train. Although the 0721 was badly delayed; would have ended up hanging around until the 0802 (only slightly delayed). Hence some relief at not choosing the worst option

(The Weston-super-Mare service was only running 6 mins late.)

 
Would this thread perhaps be better off within the "Transwilts Line" section?

 
Sorry - it probably would, I'm not that familiar with the forum and its sections. Or next time I post regarding this trip, I start a new thread in that section?

 

Helpful suggestion - I will move it there. 

General note - please post / start threads where you feel is sensible and don't worry about perfect placement - there's no such thing and we can always move stuff around if appropriate