CS marketed the new trains as an 'Experience', GWR continued to market theirs as travel. Now thinking of the winter conversation in a cafe in West Cornwall, young person of limited means booking a Sunday night seat on a short horizon and then managed to land a cabin, which was going to help considerably with the Monday morning arrival at work.

The review makes things sound as though the sleeper is habitually run with a provision that leaves it capacity-constrained.

Mark

 
Caley Sleeper also have berth only fees if a valid travel ticket is already held. But, yes, they are more expensive than GWR's.

 
....and GWR are far cheaper - even given the additional distance the Cally sleeper gives you. GWR simply charge you a berth fee on top of your travel ticket

 
It's useful to read reviews from people who for the most part would not be reviewing rail services. They've also tackled the Caledonian Sleeper: https://www.headforpoints.com/2024/01/29/review-caledonan-sleeper-train-club-room/

I've travelled on neither since they've been renewed, but at least from the photos, in terms of restful ambience and design quality, GWR wins this hands down.

(The Caledonian sleeper, travelling in 2015 and 2018, treated us to an unpowered lounge car on a winter run to Fort William, and then in 2018 to Inverness, the cabin blind was permanently jammed shut. The previous trip was some time earlier on the Anglo-Scottish West Country sleeper - both directions - and that was just fine... must have slept well as we left Waverley and climbed Arthurs Seat then came down for breakfast...)

Mark

 
Frequent flyer website Head For Points which sometimes covers other modes of transport has today posted a review of a journey on the Night Riviera:

https://www.headforpoints.com/2025/04/12/review-gwr-night-riviera-sleeper-from-paddington-to-devon-cornwall/

 

Update.......now cancelled throughout.

 

Not quite, but apparently it's going to be "started from Exeter St Davids" at 0436, so no-one will be getting much sleep!

 
And cancelled throughout from Paddington to Penzance tomorrow night.

 
Sun, 30 March 21:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:04

Facilities on the 30/03/25 21:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:04.

This is due to a shortage of train crew.

There are no reservations on this service throughout.

Additional Information
Due to a resourcing issue we are unable to operate Sunday evening's Sleeper service between Penzance and London Paddington.

We have arranged for this service to be operated by one of our regular Intercity Express Trains which will offer a Standard and First Class seating service only. There will be no accommodation facilities.

 

Trigger's broom.

 
Apparently 57305 and 57311 are being hired in for a year to cover 602 and 604 which are both due heavy maintenance exams.
Hopefully that will improve reliability, however time will tell!

 
On a serious note though...

The drawbar on a HST is supposed to be for emergency use only but GWR continually use them willy nilly.

My suggestion, permanent 105 tonne tail light, 57 each end? Performance will drop a bit but the timings are deliberately slack anyway.

 

But we were assured that Super Hitachi Intercity Trains would be Dawlish proofed...

Oh maybe not.

 

You’d think they’d be a case for funding from the DfT of additional 57s based at Laira purely for rescuing IETs at Dawlish

 
Having lots of locos standing idle at depots is obviously an expensive and bad thing But one or two Thunderbird locos strategically located would be very useful.

I suppose with most passenger trains now being powered by more than a single power unit, the general thought is that even the failure of a couple of its engines would not mean a train cannot limp on

For failures in Cornwall, is there a way to seek assistant locos from the remaining loco pool for the clay traffic?

 


They could use the class 57 off the sleeper as their Thunderbird.

Oh - oops .... 

 
The rescue was carried out by a 4 coach Castle set! Wonder what they will use once the Castle class is retired?

 
Unfortunately there was no mention of what 1Z99 actually was.
It delayed 1A78 (Penzance - Paddington) leaving Plymouth whilst waiting for 1Z99 to pull into Laira.
Only by 8 or 9 minutes, but looking at RTT it was delayed further between Cogload Junction and Athelney Crossing, so now 27 minutes down.

 
Watching on OTT the rescue loco was 1Z99 which took the sleeper back to Plymouth, then on to Laira.
I'm wondering what the rescue loco would have been? In the past they have used 2 back-to-back HST power cars.

 

According to RTT at 0939 today, it's not moved yet.  Unless either RTT or I are missing something, there appears to be no rescue locomotive approaching from either direction

 
Last night's down sleeper has failed at Menheniot and is awaiting rescue.

 

A real beauty! They'll regret sleeping through it, although there isn't much to look at in the dark.

 
A convoluted down sleeper run last night/today?

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G45686/2025-01-26/detailed#allox_id=0

 

It surprised me too, & they've generated complaints elsewhere for being generally terrible neighbours. Also, yes, you'd expect things to have improved, especially given that it's a loco.

Which reminds me to take a photo of that 'Shut down engines' notice west of Bath Spa station if it's still there.

Mark

 
Thanks Mark - that was a very illuminating article.

One thing that surprised me was the comments about the noise problem with the diesel engines on the class 68s. I would have expected standards of noise suppression to have improved over the years. It also seems clear that class 68s will not be the apparently obvious solution to the traction future of the Night Riviera I assumed it might be. Would anyone be prepared to provide funds for a bespoke 6-axle solution? Sounds doubtful.

 
A read from 'Rail' magazine from last July - a bit of detail on what's involved when those locos are put through a 'G' exam.

Mark

https://www.railmagazine.com/features-1/g-exam-gees-up-gwr-s-nocturnal-57/6s

 
57605 failed at Exeter with last night's Padd - Penz sleeper, passengers moved on to a 158+150 combo for their onward journey....

ECS awaiting rescue from 57603 which is currently en route to Exe and will then form this service to Longrock (not sure if it will drag 57605 too?)

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:49658/2025-01-16/detailed

 
At least they announced it early so people could try and make other arrangements.

 

21:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:05
21:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:05 will be cancelled.
This is due to heavy rain flooding the railway.

23:50 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54
23:50 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54 will be cancelled.
This is due to heavy rain flooding the railway.

 
Hmm. Hopefully not Oct 31st related shenanigans.

Mark

 

.....and the taxpayer picks up the bill.....https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/apr/17/record-compensation-payouts-passengers-uk-train-delays

 

Just arrived at Paddington - 06:30, which is 86 minutes late and a substantial delay/repay claim for all the passengers on board who will be hugely inconvenienced by this late arrival in the capital.

 
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:04

31/10/24 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:04 has been delayed at St Austell and is now 119 minutes late.
This is due to passengers causing a disturbance on this train.

 
Now reinstated to run, as booked, from London Paddington.

 
Tonight's westbound sleeper will start from Reading rather than London Paddington due to a shortage of staff.

 
Delay repay is excellent on the sleeper as most people are quite happy arriving late but are still entitled to a refund!

 
Or at least as far as Truro where there is also a staffed waiting room.

 
Best for those Bodmin Parkway passengers last night would have been a timely instruction to take the service down to Penzance where their beds were, but an instruction like that is fraught with uncertainties.

Mark

 

It's not the passengers travelling on the train who I'd be concerned about - I've caught the sleeper from Bodmin Parkway in the past, and the idea of waiting there for nearly two hours doesn't appeal.

 

It wasn't - 05:38 rather than the planned 05:04 into Paddington.

What a disaster for all those passengers travelling on the train who were rushing to appointments and connections in London ...  ... at least there would be some acknowledgment of this very serious hold up though delay repay ...

 
Left Penzance 115 down, currently 100 down at Fairwood Junction.
Wondering if it will be capped at Reading.

 
Night of Monday September 9:
Currently +116 at Plymouth.

 

Not a normal Sunday though.  I expect it will be quite quiet tonight.

 
... and on a Sunday. 

 
Now reinstated.

 
21:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:05
21:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:05 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

 
21:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:05

18/08/24 21:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:05 is being delayed between Swindon and Didcot Parkway and is now expected to be 132 minutes late.

This is due to the emergency services dealing with an incident.

 
It arrived into Reading nearly two hours and 15 minutes late.

It was slightly delayed in west Cornwall following a late running train which had been held at St Erth awaiting police.  Apparently three teenagers had been running wild in one coach of a 158 and vandalised a toilet in the process.

The real problems began at Hemerdon, east of Plymouth, and it was nearly an hour late by Totnes.  It then didn’t leave Exeter St David’s until gone 4am, nearly three hours late.  Some time was clawed back by sending it via Newbury instead of Bristol and Swindon as planned.

It’s the second night running the up service has had problems.  Thursday night’s train was nearly an hour late by Truro but managed to recoup half that by London Paddington.

 
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:09
16/08/24 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:09 will be diverted between Taunton and Reading and terminated at Reading.

It will no longer call at London Paddington.
It has been previously delayed, has been further delayed at Exeter St Davids and is now 172 minutes late.
This is due to a fault on this train.

 

Service beyond the call - thank you CfN!

 
Thanks, grahame.

It gets even better, though.

Bearing in mind the known limitations of the Coffee Shop forum's search facility, I have enjoyed an evening trawling through historic posts relating specifically to the Night Riviera and combined them all here.  We now have 1858 posts on the same subject, sorted in chronological order and with their original post headings preserved whenever possible.

If someone wanted to write a book about the Night Riviera, here would be a good place to start! 

Hope this helps, CfN. 

 

It is indeed ... over 1000 messages posted!   Thanks for the move and merge, Chris

 
Amazing how much ground we have covered about two trains a day, six days a week in almost 10 years.

 
There were two topics covering the Night Riviera, on two different boards, and they were both active, causing some duplication of posts.

I've therefore taken the opportunity to move the topic from our general 'across the West' board (where things tend to be buried in the sheer number of topics) to our more specific 'London to the West' board, and I've merged the posts from both here.

Original topic headings have been preserved, for clarity, so hopefully this will become our definitive reference on this subject.

Hope this helps, as ever. CfN. 

 
8 hours through the night in a standard class IET seat........forget compensation, those customers deserve medals.

 
Current thread running on this http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15037.new;topicseen#new

 
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54 will be terminated at Plymouth.

Oh no it isn't!

Running though to Penzance, on time departure from Plymouth, with the 0533 departing on time, ahead of the sleeper.

 
There's some lovely Class 68s likely going spare after Transpennine Express gave up their sublease from Direct Rail Services. Why don't GWR hire them in?

I understand driver training, depot facilities and route proving would need to be done but they're a better long term bet than continuing with the Trigger's Broom 57s.

 

They’ve had a good spell of reliability recently, just been the last few weeks and one particular loco that’s been causing issues. The problem is they’re operating with no spare locos

 

Not happening of course, but what was wrong with the idea of a couple of HST power cars on the end of a rake of coaches ... I will get my coat ...

 
They desperately need replacing, failing too often. But as we always say here….oooooozzz gonna pay for it!

 
Sleeper woes tonight - up Sleeper substituted with IET and down Sleeper terminating at Plymouth 

 
That would really suck especially if you didn’t get a first class seat. I think it might actually be a locomotive issue.

 
21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:04
Facilities on the 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:04.
This is due to a shortage of trains because of extra safety inspections.
Will be formed of 5 coaches.
Additional Information
Due to a maintenance issue we are unable to operate this evenings Sleeper service between Penzance and London Paddington.

We have arranged for this service to be operated by one of our regular Intercity Express Trains which will offer a Standard and First Class seating service only. There will be no accommodation facilities.

If you are affected by this change to your journey and have not been contacted by our dedicated team concerning your travel arrangements, please contact our Customer Services team on 03457000125.

AND
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54 will be terminated at Plymouth.
It will no longer call at Liskeard, Bodmin Parkway, Lostwithiel, Par, St Austell, Truro, Redruth, Camborne, Hayle, St Erth and Penzance.
This is due to a broken down train.
Further Information
We're sorry for the disruption to your journey.
-
If you're travelling to Liskeard, Bodmin Parkway, Lostwithiel, Par, St Austell, Truro, Redruth, Camborne, Hayle, St Erth or Penzance, please change at Plymouth and join 05:33 from Plymouth to Penzance.

Fri, 12 July 05:33 Plymouth to Penzance due 07:29
12/07/24 05:33 Plymouth to Penzance due 07:29 will be starting late from Plymouth and is expected to be 15 minutes late.
This is due to the train departing late to maintain customer connections.

 
Some images appearing on X/Twitter

https://x.com/firstgw_00/status/1811011476636725717?s=61&t=VlafMC5gF9tidw36b1Y8JQ

 
Just went out for a run and as I crossed the Tamar bridge I was totally unprepared to see it being hauled  backwards across the RAB by a castle class set!

And what's the one thing I don't take with me when out running.....yes, a phone!

 

Pretty chaotic at both the Penzance/Paddington end today.

 
Been disruption in Cornwall this morning after the down sleeper expired just past Truro.    Almost all trains into and out of Penzance have been cancelled since 8 o'clock.

 
Berks and hants line closed. Driver didn’t sign diversion route. Had to wait for someone who signed the route to arrive and accompany

 
Went through Melksham in daylight and due into Paddington just after 8am.

 
Bit of a lie-in this morning!

21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:04

08/07/24 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:04 has been previously delayed, is being further delayed between Taunton and Reading and is now expected to be 142 minutes late.

This is due to a problem currently under investigation.

 

From memory, the Class 08 shunters were speed limited at 25mph.  Yes, actual limiters.  They probably could not have gone much faster than this anyway, but they were designed in the era of non-braked vehicles and shunting them, or running short local trips with them could have presented problems on any downhill bits - too much overspeed and the side-rods could have been thrown off

The ver=y similar looking Class 09 shunters were geared differently, and had a limited top speed of 29mph, if I recall correctly.  These were a bit more useful on local trip work.  The Taunton footplate crews loved to hate the diagrams that took them to Bridgwater on the 09 pilot loco to collect or drop off the nuclear flask traffic.  Only a few miles, but it took a while

 
According to Realtime Trains at the time, it wasn't.  I did look out of curiosity.

 
Would have been embarrassing if Rishi had travelled on this service.

Just wondering if the service he was on was top 'n tailed all the way, or even double headed 'just in case'.

 
I am not sure about speed limited - in that any artificial restriction is needed.   They are designed for working on depots and have a top speed of 15-20mph at full whack.

 
I take it the shunter(s) are speed limited then - sort of like road tractors.

 
This morning's sleeper arrival from London was over 90 minutes late after problems near Redruth.   The loco developed problems and was declared a failure. 

At one stage plans were formulated to use the 08 shunter from Long Rock to rescue it but that would have taken an hour each way.   However eventually the train was able to limp into Redruth station to let passengers off.  The stock finally reached Penzance just before 10am.

 

The helicopter he flew back on wasn't taken down by truck. It will have been chartered by Conservative party HQ, and probably used for some of the hangers-on for the outbound leg. It is just possible that one of the Cornish charter firms would have been used.

 
I’m sure there would have been an alternative mode of transport that flies on standby to take the PM down to Cornwall the following morning had the sleeper been canned.

 

..and these days you don't even need a first class ticket to guarantee a solo berth.

 

A politician's choice of transport is never going to please everybody. Even the humble bicycle has its critics, given the huge outlay of energy in mining the metal and forging the steel, the colonial history of rubber for tyres, and the extinction-level threat to us all posed by a can of 3 in 1. A helicopter is a pragmatic tool in the life of a senior politician or royal, giving greater security than a motorcade and saving precious time. David Cameron began his premiership walking to Parliament, but gave in when he realised how many police had to be deployed compared to when he went by bulletproof ministerial car. Whatever one may think of the individual, the cost purely in financial terms of a senior minister being attacked far outweighs that of a chartered chopper. So what were the alternatives?
Car - would have to be followed by at least two others for advisors, a police escort, plus coaches for the press pack. Several hours in transit, during which he can't be anywhere else. Effectively a full day out, which for a minister during an election campaign is a no-no.
Train - Mr Sunak cleverly sneaked in the journey down without anyone twigging, thus managing a sleep. He could hardly catch the delayed 1750 back to Paddington once the cat was out of the bag, though. He would need close protection, aides, advisors etc with him, and probably a BTP presence on every platform along the route. There would be a possibility of a conversation such as "I'm sure we can reach a peace deal, Mr Biden/Netanyahu/Putin, but I'm about to enter Whiteball tunnel."
Don't go to Cornwall - might as well write the headlines yourself - "PM SNUBS COUNTY AGAIN - Local man says he's outraged (we think that's what he said)". Forget it.
Private plane - unless it's Grant Shapps and his US-registered Saratoga which could manage Lands End airport, it would have to be from Newquay, and presumably to RAF Northolt or London City. That adds additional steps, including through London traffic, which would lose the time gained by the higher speed of a fixed wing craft. A business jet would be more expensive than a helicopter. Which leaves:
Helicopter - expensive, noisy, but point to point and out of reach of all but the most determined miscreant. From the cost, deduct three single 1st-class fares from Penzance to Paddington at £224.40 each, and it isn't too bad after all.

 

Good job this fifn't happen the other way on Tuesday.

 
Sleepless night for those travelling tonight...............


21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:08
Facilities on the 21:45 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:08.
This is due to the train for this service having broken down.

Additional Facilities Information;

Due to a resourcing issue we are unable to operate this evenings Sleeper service between Penzance and London Paddington.

We have arranged for this service to be operated by one of our regular Intercity Express Trains which will offer a Standard and First Class seating service only. There will be no accommodation facilities.

 

If he's going to be stabbed in the back, it will have to be a decent knife - Global at the very least, preferably in a quality presentation case.

I couldn't care less what price clobber the PM and future PM wear. Neither is a pauper, and if they want to help the economy by paying more VAT on clothing than I do, fine by me. Other people on their salary dress similarly, and the normal daytime outfit of suit and tie invariably costs a packet for any front bench politician of any colour.

 

Local TV showed him exiting the sleeper at Penzance - with him saying "It was an experience"

 

Not surprising, helicopters are expensive and burn a lot of fuel. Useful for medical and other emergencies but routine use should be discouraged. Climate emergency ?

 
Not unexpected during an election campaign but Sunak's next mode of transport from Cornwall was a chartered helicopter. This hasn't gone down well in some quarters.

 

... as happened to Boris Johnson, when Michael Gove (at least metaphorically!) stabbed him in the back, withdrawing support at the last moment. 

 


I must pay my Taylor a visit  iykyk.

 
We often catalogue delays on the West of England sleepers but some long journeys on the Caledonian Sleeper last night due to problems on the West Coast Main line

Euston to Fort William 13:48 (due 11:00) (16 and a half hours after leaving London)
Euston to Aberdeen 10:35 (08:40)
Euston to Inverness - cancelled at Edinburgh
Euston to Glasgow 09:32 (07:18)
Euston to Edinburgh 09:31 (08:30)

Fort William/Aberdeen/Inverness to Euston 12:37 (08:00)
Glasgow/Edinburgh to Euston 09:36 (07:15)

 

£750? That’s chicken feed, Macron is protected by £8k umbrellas.


https://zambianobserver.com/chaos-as-french-secret-service-rush-to-protect-president-emmanuel-macron-with-8000-umbrella-after-hes-pelted-with-tomatoes-following-his-re-election/

The website for them is here https://www.parapactum.com/en/

 

I do think we should have a degree of sympathy for Rishi over this - it may well be that this is a special re-enforced back pack fitted with a bullet proof lining to save him from being stabbed in the back now (or later) by people who have been close to him but feel he has let them down in some way and are perhaps looking to usurp his position.   

 
I'm slightly disappointed.

Finn and I took the Night Riviera just over a week ago. We weren't waved off by Mr Hopwood.

Finn slept soundly. I did too until the Reading stop when some idiot decided all the slam doors had to live up to their name and be slammed shut. Note to GWR Sleeper staff/Reading dispatchers: It is possible to close the doors on Mk3 carriages relatively quietly.

My sleep was aided by a couple glasses (well, plastic beakers) of an agreeable Port in the lounge car.





https://youtu.be/lwLgJj8t8jc?si=csLHNSz-UKkw7ujP


My backpack cost £19.99. From one of those cheap luggage shops dotted around central London. Served me well for over 5 years. Getting a little careworn now but I've no plans to replace it with a £750 one.

 

It would have to be either the Prime Minister, or broadgage. 

 

The Daily Mirror must be struggling a bit if that's all they can find to criticise the PM for.  I certainly wouldn't have known it cost that much so don't feel it's rubbing people's noses in it.  On the other hand I'm baffled by how it could possibly be worth that much and find myself questioning the judgement of anyone who buys one, but that doesn't seem the be the point they're trying to make.

 

Perhaps this helps explain the dramatic rise in the value of thefts from trains off Paddington 

 
The sleeper crews knew a VIP was due this week, just not who. 
They were told to limit the amount of food given out on Monday and Tuesday to ensure there was enough breakfast stock for this.

 
Daily Mirror - Rishi Sunak wears £750 backpack to one of country's poorest areas

 

The stark difference between campaigning and delivering

 

Private helicopter not working, I suppose.