Labour pledges to make Sunday trains as reliable as weekday services

: UstiImmigrunt

Sundays were at time and 3/4 unless you had a specific local agreement?

Anyway, going home when surely the Brasso should be in use for shining up the frame?

I remember visiting Abergavveny box in 1993 and the shine from the emergency detonator leavers was painful on the eyes.

Weekends were definitely for cleaning

I did stay-over during the time the box was supposed to be closed on one Sunday. I got the ladder out and used a mixture of scouring powder (remember that? The railway equivalent of "Vim" or "Ajax") and Day & Martin's metal polish (we never had "Brasso) to clean many years of grime off the windows. The locos used to stop right outside the box, and the deposit on the glass from the exhaust had to be seen to be believed.

Not popular with the other bobbies at Moreton in Marsh, because, although it meant that you could see out of the windows much better, it also meant that people could see in

On a side-note, the box had small window panes, and the glass in several of these panes was badly flawed. It really did make things a bit dodgy when you were trying to work out if a train or loco was clear of points before you shifted them in shunting or run-round moves

: Witham Bobby

: IndustryInsider

The reason we have the Sunday ‘mess’ is because far more services are scheduled to run than before. It worked OK back then, and by ‘then’ I’m talking the 1990s and even well into the 21st century in some places, but now there’s a service resembling Saturday frequencies on many routes.

So the traditional ‘one-in-there Sundays but you’re ok if you don’t want to work them because others will’ no longer provides enough cover. It hasn’t done for years high summer, but recent events means that is now achingly apparent for larger chunks of the year.

It’s good that GWR have now been allowed to negotiate with the unions and it’s also good that a temporary enhancement has also been agreed in the meantime. Both things should probably have happened a while ago.

Paddington Worcester Sunday service back in the 1970s and 80s were: one each way in the morning, and two each way later in the day - late afternoon/evening

We used to work a split shift in the signalboxes. Go home after the first up and down, come back later for the four remaining trains.

Paid seven hours as a minimum payment for a shift, at time and a half, if I remember correctly. It may even have been double time

The present timetable shows (if I've counted correctly) 15 down and 14 up trains

Sundays were at time and 3/4 unless you had a specific local agreement?

Anyway, going home when surely the Brasso should be in use for shining up the frame?

I remember visiting Abergavveny box in 1993 and the shine from the emergency detonator leavers was painful on the eyes.

If it is the government's intention to maintain both the current levels of sunday service and weekend engineering work they had better start looking at the development of some additional usable diversionary routes or other upgrades pretty smartish e.g. a copy of the Penryn arrangement at Melksham, a passing loop between Yeovil Pen Mill and Sparkford, reinstatement of the north to east curve at Westerleigh, restore Salisbury platform 1 to full passenger use to allow trains to reverse between the Yeovil and Westbury routes without completely clogging up the station.

The only alternative would be a significant increase in the use of RRB's which I doubt many passengers would vote for.

: Mark A

This has reminded me that engineering works in that era were planned to complete on late Sunday afternoon at which point the service restarted to meet the travel needs of people who'd been somewhere for the weekend.

Mark

Remember those Sunday timetables well. Yes you had engineering works every Sunday over a set period of a timetable say 4-5 months, but you did have services starting up again around mid afternoon on a Sunday.

Most probably not the most efficient way of carrying out track maintenance, but good for the passengers using the railway at a very busy time which Sunday afternoon and evening is known for.

This has reminded me that engineering works in that era were planned to complete on late Sunday afternoon at which point the service restarted to meet the travel needs of people who'd been somewhere for the weekend.

Mark

: Witham Bobby

: IndustryInsider

The reason we have the Sunday ‘mess’ is because far more services are scheduled to run than before. It worked OK back then, and by ‘then’ I’m talking the 1990s and even well into the 21st century in some places, but now there’s a service resembling Saturday frequencies on many routes.

So the traditional ‘one-in-there Sundays but you’re ok if you don’t want to work them because others will’ no longer provides enough cover. It hasn’t done for years high summer, but recent events means that is now achingly apparent for larger chunks of the year.

It’s good that GWR have now been allowed to negotiate with the unions and it’s also good that a temporary enhancement has also been agreed in the meantime. Both things should probably have happened a while ago.

Paddington Worcester Sunday service back in the 1970s and 80s were: one each way in the morning, and two each way later in the day - late afternoon/evening

We used to work a split shift in the signalboxes. Go home after the first up and down, come back later for the four remaining trains.

Paid seven hours as a minimum payment for a shift, at time and a half, if I remember correctly. It may even have been double time

The present timetable shows (if I've counted correctly) 15 down and 14 up trains

That really does sum up my point perfectly!

: IndustryInsider

The reason we have the Sunday ‘mess’ is because far more services are scheduled to run than before. It worked OK back then, and by ‘then’ I’m talking the 1990s and even well into the 21st century in some places, but now there’s a service resembling Saturday frequencies on many routes.

So the traditional ‘one-in-there Sundays but you’re ok if you don’t want to work them because others will’ no longer provides enough cover. It hasn’t done for years high summer, but recent events means that is now achingly apparent for larger chunks of the year.

It’s good that GWR have now been allowed to negotiate with the unions and it’s also good that a temporary enhancement has also been agreed in the meantime. Both things should probably have happened a while ago.

Paddington Worcester Sunday service back in the 1970s and 80s were: one each way in the morning, and two each way later in the day - late afternoon/evening

We used to work a split shift in the signalboxes. Go home after the first up and down, come back later for the four remaining trains.

Paid seven hours as a minimum payment for a shift, at time and a half, if I remember correctly. It may even have been double time

The present timetable shows (if I've counted correctly) 15 down and 14 up trains

The reason we have the Sunday ‘mess’ is because far more services are scheduled to run than before. It worked OK back then, and by ‘then’ I’m talking the 1990s and even well into the 21st century in some places, but now there’s a service resembling Saturday frequencies on many routes.

So the traditional ‘one-in-there Sundays but you’re ok if you don’t want to work them because others will’ no longer provides enough cover. It hasn’t done for years high summer, but recent events means that is now achingly apparent for larger chunks of the year.

It’s good that GWR have now been allowed to negotiate with the unions and it’s also good that a temporary enhancement has also been agreed in the meantime. Both things should probably have happened a while ago.

: Surrey 455

Sunday train services will be as reliable as those on weekdays under plans to renationalise the railways, the new transport secretary will claim in a keynote speech on Monday.

So no engineering works on future Sundays then?

Of course there will be - but there will also be far more engineering works during the week - there are more ways to make things equal ...

Sunday train services will be as reliable as those on weekdays under plans to renationalise the railways, the new transport secretary will claim in a keynote speech on Monday.

So no engineering works on future Sundays then?

: grahame

: Electric train

Reliability and frequency perhaps are the key here ................... Sunday less frequent trains means, in theory, they will be more reliable ..................... note there is nothing about being comfortable aka be prepared to stand

One of the things that has always struck me as a gap in the promises is a promise to maintain current frequencies. There are comments there in comparative terms - Sunday versus the rest of the week - but no absolutes. Just asking.

But is there a promise to maintain current Sunday frequencies, or is what is being said a reliable service the frequency of which is to be determined

: Electric train

Reliability and frequency perhaps are the key here ................... Sunday less frequent trains means, in theory, they will be more reliable ..................... note there is nothing about being comfortable aka be prepared to stand

One of the things that has always struck me as a gap in the promises is a promise to maintain current frequencies. There are comments there in comparative terms - Sunday versus the rest of the week - but no absolutes. Just asking.

Reliability and frequency perhaps are the key here ................... Sunday less frequent trains means, in theory, they will be more reliable ..................... note there is nothing about being comfortable aka be prepared to stand

: Chris from Nailsea

I'm rather inclined to duck back down into the trench now, just whilst member TaplowGreen reads this post ...

Had to check the date - is it April 1 already?

I'm rather inclined to duck back down into the trench now, just whilst member TaplowGreen reads that post ...

From The Observer

Government plans to renationalise railways will establish new public body to improve the network

Sunday train services will be as reliable as those on weekdays under plans to renationalise the railways, the new transport secretary will claim in a keynote speech on Monday.

Issuing a series of pledges on which the government will be judged by millions of passengers – as well as its political opponents – Heidi Alexander will cite the creation of a network “where Sunday services are as reliable as Monday’s” as one of her key priorities.

In her first speech on rail since taking over from Louise Haigh, who resigned in November, Alexander will spell out the scale of the task ahead.

She will say the new public body Great British Railways (GBR), which will be established by legislation to be introduced late this year, will become “second in size and importance only to the NHS”.

It is expected that GBR will employ a total of about 90,000 people, while the NHS in England employs about 1.5 million staff.

The rail organisation will manage the process of bringing the network under national ownership as private operators’ franchises expire, and will establish the running of trains and tracks under the same body.

Rail experts will be sceptical about the government’s chances of creating a Sunday service on a par with that of weekdays without first taking on powerful rail unions, which are likely to resist more Sunday working.

Just before the general election last year, rail industry leaders urged ministers to tackle the issue of poor services on Sundays caused by staff shortages, as many services became very severely depleted.

Last summer, state-run Northern trains was particularly badly affected, with 282 trains cancelled across its network on one Sunday in late June.

Several operators reported that they could not run anything like normal timetables because of staffing issues.

Former rail minister Norman Baker said it would be very difficult to deliver on the pledge because union agreements did not require train drivers to work on Sundays.

“These agreements will either have to be renegotiated or they will have to pay drivers huge extra sums to get them to work on Sundays.”

The whole process of establishing a network run by private operators had, Baker said, led to an overall shortage of drivers.

Mick Lynch, general secretary of the Rail, Maritime and Transport Union (RMT), said there would be a willingness to discuss changes but on strict conditions.

“We are ready to engage with the companies and the Department for Transport to shape the future of our railways,” he said. “This includes ensuring a fair deal for rail workers that prioritises safety, health, and work-life balance, alongside fair pay and conditions.”

Alexander will say that the aim of reform is to turn the railways from a system for “private profit” to one operating for “public good”.

She will stress that a renationalised service will help deliver economic growth, with local mayors being given greater power to tailor regional services to local people’s needs.

Ministers are also promising that passengers travelling in England will be shown how often their trains are delayed and cancelled on screens at stations.