Re: First Class full Posted by ChrisB at 19:30, 25th September 2024 |
Once GBR gets its feet well & truly under the table, having only one organisation that needs to generate change should speed up those reasons why things could now move forward quicker
Re: First Class full Posted by Trowres at 16:41, 25th September 2024 |
Oh dear!
Not sure why this topic, of many, has suffered rising acrimony. The views expressed all seem to be valid, even if seen from different viewpoints.
Two quotes from the thread:
No interest or attempt made to learn or improve, just try to shoot the messenger.
See above. also how dare you pass opinion when YOU have NO IDEA how much time I spend sitting on various accessibility panels as a wheelchair user myself, making serious suggestions on how to improve the accessibility policy of both rail & bus.
How's your effort then, TG? Done much lately or are you simply another keyboard warrior?
I know of no organisation or its supporters that aspires to even the slightest level of service improvement which is so quick to fold arms and circle the wagons as the railway...
From the first quote, I get the picture that much effort occurs behind the scenes... (but it isn't necessarily apparent to Joe Public as change is hard work and slow).
The second quote... I have to say I've seen this evident on another railway forum populated by a mixture of rail staff, enthusiasts and users.
What the railway seems to be very good at is producing reasons. There are reasons why you can't have a service improvement. There are reasons why seats are uncomfortable and you aren't guaranteed a view out of the window. There are reasons why the fare system is a self-parody of complexity. There are reasons why it takes five hours to rescue trains in too many circumstances. There are reasons why you need to be self-sufficient and composed, as you can't guarantee there'll be some staff around to help you when things don't work out.
My opinion is that the railway has ended up in this situation more by accident / unintended consequences than any deliberate act. If the reasons can't be tackled, one has to wonder whether or not the reasons for having the railway at all are still valid.
Re: First Class full Posted by ChrisB at 14:43, 25th September 2024 |
Quality organisations treat feedback as a gift, a free way to get market research, assess areas which need improvement, and analyse failure points.
Yup, complete agree. But let's concentrate on those areas that are *actual* failures, rather than fake ones, eh? There are plenty of actual failures that we don't need to make up others just for clicks sake.
No interest or attempt made to learn or improve, just try to shoot the messenger.
See above. also how dare you pass opinion when YOU have NO IDEA how much time I spend sitting on various accessibility panels as a wheelchair user myself, making serious suggestions on how to improve the accessibility policy of both rail & bus.
How's your effort then, TG? Done much lately or are you simply another keyboard warrior?
Re: First Class full Posted by a-driver at 13:51, 25th September 2024 |
The digs at someone of the stature of Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson are particularly misplaced
Can I genuinely ask how you've arrived at the above?
Re: First Class full Posted by TaplowGreen at 13:09, 25th September 2024 |
The digs at someone of the stature of Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson are particularly misplaced, especially given that even Hendy apologised for her experience.
Ironically, considering this forum, the way lousy experiences are brushed aside so casually is not untypical of the way in which the railway so often treats its customers, whether or not they're sprinkled with a little stardust, all are entitled to a level of respect which culturally is a real struggle for some.
Ironically, considering this forum, the way lousy experiences are brushed aside so casually is not untypical of the way in which the railway so often treats its customers, whether or not they're sprinkled with a little stardust, all are entitled to a level of respect which culturally is a real struggle for some.
Yes, I agree they are, providing they don't deliberately shit-stir against the railway & deliberately not tell the full story - 'Dame' Tanni is well aware of how the railway works (indeed, she wrote part of the accessibility policy) and if she books assistance in advance & then misses her service, advising the rail staff of this would have simplified her arrival at her destination. And then to cover that up when tweeting about it to get her supporters all riled up yet again.
That to me, loses any respect due.
I know of no organisation or its supporters that aspires to even the slightest level of service improvement which is so quick to fold arms and circle the wagons as the railway. The answer above illustrates that perfectly.
Quality organisations treat feedback as a gift, a free way to get market research, assess areas which need improvement, and analyse failure points.
Here we have a culture of utter defensive ness,akin to something like the Church of Scientology, where any critic is treated with suspicion at best moving on to outright derision/calling their character into question.
No interest or attempt made to learn or improve, just try to shoot the messenger.
A minor cultural shift to appreciating that the role of the railways is to move people, as well as trains could make a huge difference.
What a shock there'd be for some if there was real competition.
Re: First Class full Posted by ChrisB at 11:00, 25th September 2024 |
The digs at someone of the stature of Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson are particularly misplaced, especially given that even Hendy apologised for her experience.
Ironically, considering this forum, the way lousy experiences are brushed aside so casually is not untypical of the way in which the railway so often treats its customers, whether or not they're sprinkled with a little stardust, all are entitled to a level of respect which culturally is a real struggle for some.
Ironically, considering this forum, the way lousy experiences are brushed aside so casually is not untypical of the way in which the railway so often treats its customers, whether or not they're sprinkled with a little stardust, all are entitled to a level of respect which culturally is a real struggle for some.
Yes, I agree they are, providing they don't deliberately shit-stir against the railway & deliberately not tell the full story - 'Dame' Tanni is well aware of how the railway works (indeed, she wrote part of the accessibility policy) and if she books assistance in advance & then misses her service, advising the rail staff of this would have simplified her arrival at her destination. And then to cover that up when tweeting about it to get her supporters all riled up yet again.
That to me, loses any respect due.
Re: First Class full Posted by a-driver at 09:40, 25th September 2024 |
I’m not going to name specific “celebrities” but train crew and those who work on the frontline in the industry know exactly who will cause issues on a train or station, those who are generally just plain rude and self entitled. They’ll be informed one thing by crew and they’ll often claim something totally different has happened. You’ll often find staff will be reluctant to do anything for these “celebrities” because whatever they do, it’ll be met by negativity. I guess that’s not solely specific to rail either.
On the other side of the coin, they are “celebrities” who are just a pleasure to have onboard. Happy to chat, happy to have photos taken etc, no air of self importance whatsoever.
As for those public apologies, like with any of us who receive one from any company/organisation, do we ever think they are sincere or just an easy way of making an issue quickly disappear?
Re: First Class full Posted by JayMac at 08:17, 25th September 2024 |
Any rebuke also for the personal attacks questioning the integrity of Mariella Frostrup and Tanni Grey-Thompson?
Re: First Class full Posted by TaplowGreen at 04:45, 25th September 2024 |
Ironically, considering this forum, the way lousy experiences are brushed aside so casually is not untypical of the way in which the railway so often treats its customers, whether or not they're sprinkled with a little stardust, all are entitled to a level of respect which culturally is a real struggle for some.
TaplowGreen: please note that none of us here on the Administrator / Moderator team on the Coffee Shop forum are railway staff - we have absolutely no remit to defend 'The Railways'.
We just want to see a good clean discussion of the facts of any situation, here on the forum, without it getting personal.
Chris from Nailsea.
Duly noted.
I'm unclear as to how subjective speculation on the behaviours of those involved based on being in the public eye and/or calling into question the accuracy of their lived experiences in this context constitutes or adds to "facts", but there you go.
I am sure both Dame T G-T and Ms Frostrup have far bigger platforms they can utilise if they need to, and a fair amount of integrity in the Bank too. Perhaps the noble Lord Hendy took that into account when he apologised to the former after her recent humiliating experience.
Re: First Class full Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 22:07, 24th September 2024 |
Ironically, considering this forum, the way lousy experiences are brushed aside so casually is not untypical of the way in which the railway so often treats its customers, whether or not they're sprinkled with a little stardust, all are entitled to a level of respect which culturally is a real struggle for some.
TaplowGreen: please note that none of us here on the Administrator / Moderator team on the Coffee Shop forum are railway staff - we have absolutely no remit to defend 'The Railways'.
We just want to see a good clean discussion of the facts of any situation, here on the forum, without it getting personal.
Chris from Nailsea.
Re: First Class full Posted by Ralph Ayres at 21:50, 24th September 2024 |
So often these complaints end with a comment about driving next time, as if there are never any problems on car journeys (written having cycled over a stationary M25 earlier today). The railways - or at least some bits of them - do seem to be going through a particularly bad patch at the moment though.
Re: First Class full Posted by TaplowGreen at 21:34, 24th September 2024 |
Gently, gentlemen.
My apologies if appropriate, but the smugness, cynicism and attempts to discredit and downplay individuals experiences, entirely subjectively and based on nothing more than their "celebrity" is tiresome and cheap.
The digs at someone of the stature of Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson are particularly misplaced, especially given that even Hendy apologised for her experience.
Ironically, considering this forum, the way lousy experiences are brushed aside so casually is not untypical of the way in which the railway so often treats its customers, whether or not they're sprinkled with a little stardust, all are entitled to a level of respect which culturally is a real struggle for some.
Re: First Class full Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 21:19, 24th September 2024 |
Gently, gentlemen.
Re: First Class full Posted by TaplowGreen at 21:12, 24th September 2024 |
Mariella said in her tweet that she had booked an Advance 1st ticket - I wondered what happened to her compulsory seat reservation, but got no answer. The celeb travellers never tell their full stories, do they Tanni?
Can't imagine why she didn't respond to you immediately.....especially given you're always so supportive of customers who've had a lousy experience!
By the nature of their professions, celebrities, sportspeople and politicians are out there / very much more communicative and much more likely to go public than the average passenger ... with the press much more likely to publicise the case of someone who's know to their readership. But that does not make these high profile people any more informed about how the rail system works (which I understand is quite complicated). So the net result is often a bit of an odd or partial story that the typically well-informed members of the Coffee Shop can see may have more holes than a colander.
That being the case, perhaps you'd like to tell us what actually happened in this case, and the specific details that Ms Frostrup has omitted?
I'm sure that shouldn't be difficult for one so well informed?
Re: First Class full Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 20:55, 24th September 2024 |
... the typically well-informed members of the Coffee Shop can see may have more holes than a colander.
That was darned good spelling for you, grahame!
CfN
Re: First Class full Posted by grahame at 20:12, 24th September 2024 |
Mariella said in her tweet that she had booked an Advance 1st ticket - I wondered what happened to her compulsory seat reservation, but got no answer. The celeb travellers never tell their full stories, do they Tanni?
Can't imagine why she didn't respond to you immediately.....especially given you're always so supportive of customers who've had a lousy experience!
By the nature of their professions, celebrities, sportspeople and politicians are out there / very much more communicative and much more likely to go public than the average passenger ... with the press much more likely to publicise the case of someone who's know to their readership. But that does not make these high profile people any more informed about how the rail system works (which I understand is quite complicated). So the net result is often a bit of an odd or partial story that the typically well-informed members of the Coffee Shop can see may have more holes than a colander.
Re: First Class full Posted by TaplowGreen at 18:12, 24th September 2024 |
Mariella said in her tweet that she had booked an Advance 1st ticket - I wondered what happened to her compulsory seat reservation, but got no answer. The celeb travellers never tell their full stories, do they Tanni?
Can't imagine why she didn't respond to you immediately.....especially given you're always so supportive of customers who've had a lousy experience!
Re: First Class full Posted by a-driver at 16:14, 24th September 2024 |
Mariella said in her tweet that she had booked an Advance 1st ticket - I wondered what happened to her compulsory seat reservation, but got no answer. The celeb travellers never tell their full stories, do they Tanni?
Potentially a short formed service, a 5 vice 9 or 10
Re: First Class full Posted by ChrisB at 15:58, 24th September 2024 |
Mariella said in her tweet that she had booked an Advance 1st ticket - I wondered what happened to her compulsory seat reservation, but got no answer. The celeb travellers never tell their full stories, do they Tanni?
Re: First Class full Posted by grahame at 13:10, 24th September 2024 |
I will always remember standard class being full and being told my ticket was to travel and didn't guarantee a seat
From Chiltern Railways but worded as if it applies to all TOCx
If you have paid for a First Class ticket and no First Class seats are available (or where a First Class carriage was advertised but not available), then you will be able to claim through the train company on which you were travelling for the difference in fare between your fare and a walk-up standard class fare for the same service.
Please note that occasionally a promotional or Advance First Class fare can be cheaper than the walk-up Standard Class fare and in these cases you may not be entitled to any money back.
Please note that occasionally a promotional or Advance First Class fare can be cheaper than the walk-up Standard Class fare and in these cases you may not be entitled to any money back.
Re: First Class full Posted by Phantom at 12:29, 24th September 2024 |
From the Daily Mail
Do I vaguely remember that if you don't get a seat in first you can claim your fare back, whereas in standard class it's "tough"
Beach saunas, wild swimming, and a plush hotel in Devon - it was the perfect holiday retreat for Mariella Frostrup.
That was until the broadcaster encountered Great Western Railways, and was forced to spend a two-hour journey sitting on the train floor despite holding a first-class ticket.
Returning from a wellness retreat on Saturday, the 61-year-old presenter splashed out on a pricier ticket, but was met with a packed service from Tiverton Parkway, Devon to London Paddington and no seat.
That was until the broadcaster encountered Great Western Railways, and was forced to spend a two-hour journey sitting on the train floor despite holding a first-class ticket.
Returning from a wellness retreat on Saturday, the 61-year-old presenter splashed out on a pricier ticket, but was met with a packed service from Tiverton Parkway, Devon to London Paddington and no seat.
Do I vaguely remember that if you don't get a seat in first you can claim your fare back, whereas in standard class it's "tough"
I will always remember standard class being full and being told my ticket was to travel and didn't guarantee a seat
Re: First Class full Posted by TaplowGreen at 06:41, 24th September 2024 |
Do I also vaguely remember a previous Prime Minister having a similar experience?
Which PM was that?
I do remember Corbyn getting a photo opportunity sitting on the floor of a "ram packed" train............and then it emerged that he'd walked past dozens of empty seats to get there
Re: First Class full Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 00:00, 24th September 2024 |
Do I also vaguely remember a previous Prime Minister having a similar experience?
First Class full Posted by grahame at 23:17, 23rd September 2024 |
From the Daily Mail
Beach saunas, wild swimming, and a plush hotel in Devon - it was the perfect holiday retreat for Mariella Frostrup.
That was until the broadcaster encountered Great Western Railways, and was forced to spend a two-hour journey sitting on the train floor despite holding a first-class ticket.
Returning from a wellness retreat on Saturday, the 61-year-old presenter splashed out on a pricier ticket, but was met with a packed service from Tiverton Parkway, Devon to London Paddington and no seat.
That was until the broadcaster encountered Great Western Railways, and was forced to spend a two-hour journey sitting on the train floor despite holding a first-class ticket.
Returning from a wellness retreat on Saturday, the 61-year-old presenter splashed out on a pricier ticket, but was met with a packed service from Tiverton Parkway, Devon to London Paddington and no seat.
Do I vaguely remember that if you don't get a seat in first you can claim your fare back, whereas in standard class it's "tough"