| Re: Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train Posted by grahame at 13:51, 7th November 2024 |      |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62j810dlnmo
Paralympian leads effort to improve travel for disabled people
Paralympic champion Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson is to lead a new group of experts tasked with improving air travel for disabled passengers.
The Aviation Accessibility Task and Finish Group, announced by the government, will work to make flying accessible for all "from booking to baggage claim".
"For too long, disabled passengers haven’t had the standard of assistance and service they need," said Transport Secretary Louise Haigh.
Paralympic champion Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson is to lead a new group of experts tasked with improving air travel for disabled passengers.
The Aviation Accessibility Task and Finish Group, announced by the government, will work to make flying accessible for all "from booking to baggage claim".
"For too long, disabled passengers haven’t had the standard of assistance and service they need," said Transport Secretary Louise Haigh.
Headline just says "travel' but main article confirms air travel
| Re: Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train Posted by ChrisB at 16:57, 1st September 2024 | |
'My traumatic journey to London in my wheelchair'
From the BBC
A woman has spoken of her "traumatic" train journey to London in a wheelchair, saying she was left stranded on a train.
Jacqui Darlington, who has been using a wheelchair since June, is one of a number of people to contact the BBC after Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson revealed that she was forced to "crawl off" a train at London's Kings Cross.
The former Paralympian's experience prompted others with a disability to share their stories of the challenges they face when travelling by train.
Network Rail said the situation was "not good enough", adding it is "determined to work with all train operators to improve".
Ms Darlington told the BBC that despite booking passenger assistance, she was "forgotten" and "left unable to get off the train" when it entered Kings Cross.
With no one there to help her, the train left the station with her still onboard.
"The fear, panic and anxiety I felt in those few minutes was unbelievable and is something that I cannot put into words," she said.
Ms Darlington, who runs a group for adults with additional needs, was helped to return to Kings Cross but said the whole process was "traumatic".
"My journey using my wheelchair to London had me in tears until I reached my destination," she said.
Dr Ali Carre told the BBC that "despite being fiercely independent" as a wheelchair user, repeated problems travelling on trains have "totally put me off train travel".
Dr Carre described how, on one occasion, the booked passenger assistance service failed to meet her at Reading.
The retired psychiatrist said this meant she was left "dragging myself off the train and onto platform with my wheelchair upside down".
"I really hurt my hand and arm, which ruined my holiday as a manual wheelchair user," she said.
Dr Carre also described problems at Paddington station, including being left on a train which was suddenly taken out of service.
All the other passengers left, said Dr Carre, but she was left alone.
"No one came to help," she said. "I started pushing the emergency button for more than 15 mins before someone came."
Kathleen Hogg said her family has experienced problems "many many times".
"My son has cerebral palsy and is quadriplegic and is quite a large man, we are in our 70's and are unable to lift him, so as a consequence we have to book assistance," Ms Hogg said.
She added that problems usually occur when the family heads to London's West End at Christmas to see a show.
"We make sure we book ahead and inform station staff," Ms Hogg said, but added that passenger assistance services are often not ready to meet them.
Ms Hogg said this leads to "a stressful situation".
"I usually hold the doors so that the train cannot leave and my husband gets off to seek a rail person, often you feel a nuisance," she said.
Some station staff "can be really nice", but "you are made to feel a thorn in their side," she added.
'It’s not good enough'
A Network Rail spokesperson said: “We’re striving to provide an accessible railway for everyone, yet the way ‘Passenger Assist’ let Baroness Grey-Thompson down on Monday night at King’s Cross station, and news of others poor experiences shows us, and the industry as a whole, that we have much more to do.
“While well over 90% of passenger assistance requests made last year were completed to the letter, we strive to do better and recognise the anxiety and distress caused when people are left without help.
"It’s not good enough. We’re determined to work with all train operators to improve this vital area of our work so that everyone can have confidence in being able to use the railway.”
Jacqui Darlington, who has been using a wheelchair since June, is one of a number of people to contact the BBC after Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson revealed that she was forced to "crawl off" a train at London's Kings Cross.
The former Paralympian's experience prompted others with a disability to share their stories of the challenges they face when travelling by train.
Network Rail said the situation was "not good enough", adding it is "determined to work with all train operators to improve".
Ms Darlington told the BBC that despite booking passenger assistance, she was "forgotten" and "left unable to get off the train" when it entered Kings Cross.
With no one there to help her, the train left the station with her still onboard.
"The fear, panic and anxiety I felt in those few minutes was unbelievable and is something that I cannot put into words," she said.
Ms Darlington, who runs a group for adults with additional needs, was helped to return to Kings Cross but said the whole process was "traumatic".
"My journey using my wheelchair to London had me in tears until I reached my destination," she said.
Dr Ali Carre told the BBC that "despite being fiercely independent" as a wheelchair user, repeated problems travelling on trains have "totally put me off train travel".
Dr Carre described how, on one occasion, the booked passenger assistance service failed to meet her at Reading.
The retired psychiatrist said this meant she was left "dragging myself off the train and onto platform with my wheelchair upside down".
"I really hurt my hand and arm, which ruined my holiday as a manual wheelchair user," she said.
Dr Carre also described problems at Paddington station, including being left on a train which was suddenly taken out of service.
All the other passengers left, said Dr Carre, but she was left alone.
"No one came to help," she said. "I started pushing the emergency button for more than 15 mins before someone came."
Kathleen Hogg said her family has experienced problems "many many times".
"My son has cerebral palsy and is quadriplegic and is quite a large man, we are in our 70's and are unable to lift him, so as a consequence we have to book assistance," Ms Hogg said.
She added that problems usually occur when the family heads to London's West End at Christmas to see a show.
"We make sure we book ahead and inform station staff," Ms Hogg said, but added that passenger assistance services are often not ready to meet them.
Ms Hogg said this leads to "a stressful situation".
"I usually hold the doors so that the train cannot leave and my husband gets off to seek a rail person, often you feel a nuisance," she said.
Some station staff "can be really nice", but "you are made to feel a thorn in their side," she added.
'It’s not good enough'
A Network Rail spokesperson said: “We’re striving to provide an accessible railway for everyone, yet the way ‘Passenger Assist’ let Baroness Grey-Thompson down on Monday night at King’s Cross station, and news of others poor experiences shows us, and the industry as a whole, that we have much more to do.
“While well over 90% of passenger assistance requests made last year were completed to the letter, we strive to do better and recognise the anxiety and distress caused when people are left without help.
"It’s not good enough. We’re determined to work with all train operators to improve this vital area of our work so that everyone can have confidence in being able to use the railway.”
Improving disabled access to UK’s public transport ‘almost impossible’
From The Guardian, via MSN
When Tanni Grey-Thompson was left stranded at London’s King’s Cross station on her way to the opening ceremony of the Paralympic Games in Paris this week, she had to crawl on to the platform.
Lady Grey-Thompson, a former Paralympic athlete and crossbench peer, said she and other disabled passengers frequently suffered humiliating incidents travelling by train. “The system is just not working,” she said.
Rather than being scrutinised by a Public Bill Committee, the Government has opted for a Committee of the Whole House.
It means the law to re-nationalise the railways, a long-held demand of union bosses, can pass weeks and possibly even months quicker.
The fast-track measure is usually reserved for emergency legislation, such as during the Covid-19 pandemic when it was used to bring in social distancing rules speedily. It is also used following budgets so that tax and spending changes can happen quickly.
Nor did apologies from the train company’s managing director and a senior figure at the Department for Transport (DfT) ameliorate her. “It’s like, ‘and … ?’” said Grey-Thompson, a multiple gold medallist. “They are nice people but it doesn’t mean much … it just happens to so many other people.”
The Equality Act and the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities mandate equal access to transport for disabled people.
But research bears out Grey-Thompson’s suspicion that neither are being implemented on the ground: more than half of people with complex disabilities find public transport inadequate, with issues including overcrowding, a lack of staff support and negative attitudes from staff and other passengers.
Mike Brace CBE, a former chair of the British Paralympic Association and a member of the government’s Disabled Persons Transport Advisory Committee (DPTAC), said the UK’s public transport system was so “sprawling” that improving access for disabled people was almost impossible.
Brace, who sits on DPTAC’s rail working group, said the DfT took feedback from his group seriously but the implementation of their advice was almost impossible considering the diverse nature of the transport system.
“There are a number of good schemes going to help disabled people access the rail network but when there are 14 rail companies who need to implement those changes, there is an issue,” he said.
“The problem is the same with taxi refusals for guide dogs and wheelchairs, or airlines breaking wheelchairs when they’re in transit.”
Lucy Webster, a disability advocate, agreed that a lack of scrutiny and accountability of transport operators was a key issue, leading to ineffective complaint processes and fatigue among disabled passengers.
“There’s no regulator we can call that has any power, so why would companies care when they can get away with it?” said Webster, the author of The View From Down Here.
“The only way we can challenge these failures is through the law, and that is time-consuming, takes energy, understanding of process and more things that are simply not accessible to a lot of disabled people,” she said.
The Office of Rail and Road is the regulator responsible for monitoring and enforcing their implementation of accessible transport policies across the UK.
They do not set the overall strategy or possible interventions – those are set by the DfT – but can issue penalties if an operator defaults on their licence.
“Issuing penalties is rare,” said a spokesperson. “We aim to be fair and only do this when absolutely necessary, after having increased monitoring and meeting with operators to address the issues.”
The spokesperson said that the current situation was not ideal. “Improving accessibility for disabled users requires an industry-wide change in culture to make sure processes are followed and the needs of disabled users are consistently taken into account,” they added.
Emma Vogelmann, the head of policy at Transport for All, agreed that “systemic issues” blight the entire UK transport network for disabled people and said that “despite numerous complaints, systemic change is just not happening”.
Vogelmann believes a fundamental problem is the exclusion of disabled people from infrastructure and policy discussions, creating an echo chamber in which disabled people’s experiences are not at the forefront of anyone’s mind when public transport contracts and regulation are written.
“Rail is particularly problematic, with disabled people often facing barriers and fearing inadequate assistance,” she said. However, she said she was “cautiously optimistic” about potential improvements under the new government and operators.
Webster believes attitudes towards travel are informed by attitudes in wider society. “When I travel, I’m constantly asked questions that show no one, not staff or the public, think I should be out of the house at all. ‘Why are you out so late?’ is a common question I’m asked when on public transport.”
Harriet Edwards, the head of policy at the deafblind charity, Sense, said all these problems create the perfect storm in which the government continues to fail in its responsibility to ensure transport operators comply with the law.
“Despite the rhetoric, there has been little action to change the situation on the ground for disabled people,” she said. “The lack of policy prioritisation and funding is a significant barrier to making the necessary changes.”
This, she said, was economically unjustifiable. “Making the transport system accessible could generate £72.4bn a year in economic benefits,” she said. “Accessible transport helps tackle loneliness and isolation, with significant health and social care impacts.”
Lady Grey-Thompson, a former Paralympic athlete and crossbench peer, said she and other disabled passengers frequently suffered humiliating incidents travelling by train. “The system is just not working,” she said.
Rather than being scrutinised by a Public Bill Committee, the Government has opted for a Committee of the Whole House.
It means the law to re-nationalise the railways, a long-held demand of union bosses, can pass weeks and possibly even months quicker.
The fast-track measure is usually reserved for emergency legislation, such as during the Covid-19 pandemic when it was used to bring in social distancing rules speedily. It is also used following budgets so that tax and spending changes can happen quickly.
Nor did apologies from the train company’s managing director and a senior figure at the Department for Transport (DfT) ameliorate her. “It’s like, ‘and … ?’” said Grey-Thompson, a multiple gold medallist. “They are nice people but it doesn’t mean much … it just happens to so many other people.”
The Equality Act and the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities mandate equal access to transport for disabled people.
But research bears out Grey-Thompson’s suspicion that neither are being implemented on the ground: more than half of people with complex disabilities find public transport inadequate, with issues including overcrowding, a lack of staff support and negative attitudes from staff and other passengers.
Mike Brace CBE, a former chair of the British Paralympic Association and a member of the government’s Disabled Persons Transport Advisory Committee (DPTAC), said the UK’s public transport system was so “sprawling” that improving access for disabled people was almost impossible.
Brace, who sits on DPTAC’s rail working group, said the DfT took feedback from his group seriously but the implementation of their advice was almost impossible considering the diverse nature of the transport system.
“There are a number of good schemes going to help disabled people access the rail network but when there are 14 rail companies who need to implement those changes, there is an issue,” he said.
“The problem is the same with taxi refusals for guide dogs and wheelchairs, or airlines breaking wheelchairs when they’re in transit.”
Lucy Webster, a disability advocate, agreed that a lack of scrutiny and accountability of transport operators was a key issue, leading to ineffective complaint processes and fatigue among disabled passengers.
“There’s no regulator we can call that has any power, so why would companies care when they can get away with it?” said Webster, the author of The View From Down Here.
“The only way we can challenge these failures is through the law, and that is time-consuming, takes energy, understanding of process and more things that are simply not accessible to a lot of disabled people,” she said.
The Office of Rail and Road is the regulator responsible for monitoring and enforcing their implementation of accessible transport policies across the UK.
They do not set the overall strategy or possible interventions – those are set by the DfT – but can issue penalties if an operator defaults on their licence.
“Issuing penalties is rare,” said a spokesperson. “We aim to be fair and only do this when absolutely necessary, after having increased monitoring and meeting with operators to address the issues.”
The spokesperson said that the current situation was not ideal. “Improving accessibility for disabled users requires an industry-wide change in culture to make sure processes are followed and the needs of disabled users are consistently taken into account,” they added.
Emma Vogelmann, the head of policy at Transport for All, agreed that “systemic issues” blight the entire UK transport network for disabled people and said that “despite numerous complaints, systemic change is just not happening”.
Vogelmann believes a fundamental problem is the exclusion of disabled people from infrastructure and policy discussions, creating an echo chamber in which disabled people’s experiences are not at the forefront of anyone’s mind when public transport contracts and regulation are written.
“Rail is particularly problematic, with disabled people often facing barriers and fearing inadequate assistance,” she said. However, she said she was “cautiously optimistic” about potential improvements under the new government and operators.
Webster believes attitudes towards travel are informed by attitudes in wider society. “When I travel, I’m constantly asked questions that show no one, not staff or the public, think I should be out of the house at all. ‘Why are you out so late?’ is a common question I’m asked when on public transport.”
Harriet Edwards, the head of policy at the deafblind charity, Sense, said all these problems create the perfect storm in which the government continues to fail in its responsibility to ensure transport operators comply with the law.
“Despite the rhetoric, there has been little action to change the situation on the ground for disabled people,” she said. “The lack of policy prioritisation and funding is a significant barrier to making the necessary changes.”
This, she said, was economically unjustifiable. “Making the transport system accessible could generate £72.4bn a year in economic benefits,” she said. “Accessible transport helps tackle loneliness and isolation, with significant health and social care impacts.”
| Re: Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train Posted by ChrisB at 21:26, 31st August 2024 | |
I disagree with Tanni over the Passenger Assist website - it really isn't 'chaotic', but as disabilities vary, there ought to be an easy-to-understand guide as to what you can expect from using it (& when). It does work however, every time that I've used it.
| Re: Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train Posted by ChrisB at 21:22, 31st August 2024 | |
From the BBC
Grey-Thompson urges severe penalties after train ordeal
Train companies which fail to help disabled passengers should face "severe penalties", Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson has said.
It comes after the 11-time Paralympic champion complained she had been forced to "crawl off" a train at London King's Cross station when assistance failed to arrive for 20 minutes.
Operator LNER is investigating the incident, which took place on Monday night.
Speaking to BBC News, Baroness Grey-Thompson called on the government to "make a commitment to bringing about real change", as her experience had "woken up a lot of people".
She also warned that at the "current rate of change" there would not be step-free access in rail stations in the UK for 100 years.
'Chaotic' booking website
"That's just not good for anybody," she said. "We've got to be a bit more creative in finding solutions."
The Disabled Persons Transport Advisory Committee estimated in 2022 that it would take about 100 years to make all UK rail stations step-free, external to new-build standards, costing at least £3.75bn.
On Monday night, Baroness Grey-Thompson boarded the 19:45 train from Leeds rather than the 19:15 on which she had booked assistance. But she said staff who helped her board knew she would be getting off in London.
She called for a system where "missed assists" - where a staff member does not arrive to help a disabled passenger - can be easily reported to the Office of Rail and Road, rather than the current lengthy system of suing for compensation.
"We're at a point now - and I've never been quite in this place before - where there needs to be severe penalties on the train companies for failure because that might be the only thing that changes it," she said.
She also said the website passengers use for booking assisted travel for all train firms was "chaotic" and rail staff need training on disabled peoples' "legal right to turn up and go" on any journey.
The Office of Rail and Road, which enforces accessible travel policies - a condition of station operator licences - says that passengers can turn up at any station, external and request assistance from a member of staff, providing there is availability.
'Scary' backlash
Baroness Grey-Thompson also called for level-boarding trains - where there is no gap between the carriage and platform edge - to feature in legislation coming soon to Parliament, which aims to establish new public body Great British Railways.
The Disability Discrimination Act 2005 required that all trains were to be made accessible by 2020, but many carriages still do not comply with the rules.
Since first speaking about her train ordeal on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, external, Baroness Grey-Thompson said she had heard from "quite a lot of people", including wheelchair users who have "had to get themselves off trains" like she did.
"There's always a worry that you're not going to be met," she said of assistance at stations. "Sitting in the doorway shouting to people on the platform, trying to wave to get someone's attention, is stuff that I do, yes."
She said she had also received some "hate mail" which had left her shaken. "It is shocking and a little bit scary - they're not at the level where they're reportable to the police but there's a level of threat that makes them extremely uncomfortable," she said.
ParalympicsGB's chief Penny Briscoe said what happened was a "disgrace".
Earlier this week Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer said Baroness Grey-Thompson's experience was "unacceptable" and there "should be a basic requirement" for accessible facilities on all public transport.
Train companies which fail to help disabled passengers should face "severe penalties", Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson has said.
It comes after the 11-time Paralympic champion complained she had been forced to "crawl off" a train at London King's Cross station when assistance failed to arrive for 20 minutes.
Operator LNER is investigating the incident, which took place on Monday night.
Speaking to BBC News, Baroness Grey-Thompson called on the government to "make a commitment to bringing about real change", as her experience had "woken up a lot of people".
She also warned that at the "current rate of change" there would not be step-free access in rail stations in the UK for 100 years.
'Chaotic' booking website
"That's just not good for anybody," she said. "We've got to be a bit more creative in finding solutions."
The Disabled Persons Transport Advisory Committee estimated in 2022 that it would take about 100 years to make all UK rail stations step-free, external to new-build standards, costing at least £3.75bn.
On Monday night, Baroness Grey-Thompson boarded the 19:45 train from Leeds rather than the 19:15 on which she had booked assistance. But she said staff who helped her board knew she would be getting off in London.
She called for a system where "missed assists" - where a staff member does not arrive to help a disabled passenger - can be easily reported to the Office of Rail and Road, rather than the current lengthy system of suing for compensation.
"We're at a point now - and I've never been quite in this place before - where there needs to be severe penalties on the train companies for failure because that might be the only thing that changes it," she said.
She also said the website passengers use for booking assisted travel for all train firms was "chaotic" and rail staff need training on disabled peoples' "legal right to turn up and go" on any journey.
The Office of Rail and Road, which enforces accessible travel policies - a condition of station operator licences - says that passengers can turn up at any station, external and request assistance from a member of staff, providing there is availability.
'Scary' backlash
Baroness Grey-Thompson also called for level-boarding trains - where there is no gap between the carriage and platform edge - to feature in legislation coming soon to Parliament, which aims to establish new public body Great British Railways.
The Disability Discrimination Act 2005 required that all trains were to be made accessible by 2020, but many carriages still do not comply with the rules.
Since first speaking about her train ordeal on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, external, Baroness Grey-Thompson said she had heard from "quite a lot of people", including wheelchair users who have "had to get themselves off trains" like she did.
"There's always a worry that you're not going to be met," she said of assistance at stations. "Sitting in the doorway shouting to people on the platform, trying to wave to get someone's attention, is stuff that I do, yes."
She said she had also received some "hate mail" which had left her shaken. "It is shocking and a little bit scary - they're not at the level where they're reportable to the police but there's a level of threat that makes them extremely uncomfortable," she said.
ParalympicsGB's chief Penny Briscoe said what happened was a "disgrace".
Earlier this week Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer said Baroness Grey-Thompson's experience was "unacceptable" and there "should be a basic requirement" for accessible facilities on all public transport.
| Re: Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train Posted by stuving at 19:25, 31st August 2024 | |
When you're getting a parcel sent to you you can track its progress. I was wondering why something similar wasn't part of this story - allowing the recipient to check up on the status of their "delivery".
There is a Passenger Assistance app (and web equivalent), which started in 2021, but it only does bookings. You can change a booking for a new one, but you still only get an e-mail of confirmation.
I guess that was a reasonable start, but pretty soon the lack of interactive features will look like a missed opportunity. Surely it should be possible to provide feedback showing what is recorded in internal systems. Plus, of course, a big red button to signal that the required assistance has not showed up!
| Re: Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train Posted by ChrisB at 16:41, 31st August 2024 | |
...so the situation AIUI from this thread was booked assistance was for the previous train, so the train that arrived at King's Cross was TUAG from Leeds; so the responsibility is on Leeds' station staff to contact King's Cross in this scenario?
Correct. And I suspect Leeds did call KGX to say that there was an assist required off that 1945 train. What the traveller subsequently said the morning after on Radio 4's Today programme was that she had booked assistance herself on the previous train - the 1915.
What isn't clear is whether KGX were told that she had effectively moved her assist from one train to the later train. Did the staff at Leeds know about that earlier booking? It would be easy for the staff at KGX to get confused about which service required assistance.
It is that part of the assist function that obviously needs work behind the scenes. David Horne is looking at that, and has promised to make public the findings & what might be done. It is rail-wide, so may unfortunately take time to implement across the rail network.
Finally, the problem as I see it seems to involve mainly London Terminii stations generally run by Network Rail, not the TOC. There are various jobs at those stations being done by TOC staff & some by NR staff - and it looks as though the definition isn't as good as it should be?
Some overtones of ableism in earlier comments here..........................
To those criticising Baroness Grey-Thompson, questioning her actions, suggesting she's somehow in the wrong, then may I propose you try a few months of train travel in a wheelchair... you may find it enlightening.
To those criticising Baroness Grey-Thompson, questioning her actions, suggesting she's somehow in the wrong, then may I propose you try a few months of train travel in a wheelchair... you may find it enlightening.
I don't think anyone was suggesting that she was "in the wrong" - just that the story seemed to be different on each retelling. Is no one allowed to ask what actually happened without being accused of some sort of "ism" ?
Yup, agree - and I've been a wheelchair user now for well over a year, and can definitely understand & know procedures as I've made it my pasttime to find out & Try & improve 'our' lot when travelling on the rails. I can (touch wood) say that I have *never* had any problems with Passenger Assist or TUAG. However, my journeys in & out of mainline Network Rail stations are limited in number so far.
I am working on several accessibility passenger groups on different TOCs and meetings do produce results. Still more work to do, but I suspect the problems are not as widespread as thought.
| Re: Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train Posted by Clan Line at 13:59, 31st August 2024 | |
Some overtones of ableism in earlier comments here..........................
To those criticising Baroness Grey-Thompson, questioning her actions, suggesting she's somehow in the wrong, then may I propose you try a few months of train travel in a wheelchair... you may find it enlightening.
To those criticising Baroness Grey-Thompson, questioning her actions, suggesting she's somehow in the wrong, then may I propose you try a few months of train travel in a wheelchair... you may find it enlightening.
I don't think anyone was suggesting that she was "in the wrong" - just that the story seemed to be different on each retelling. Is no one allowed to ask what actually happened without being accused of some sort of "ism" ?
Yes, the TOC concerned could have done better, but from the reported story the Baroness could have acted somewhat more pragmatically, rather than feeding a story to the media knowing what OTT headlines they would make of it with her name attached to it. The result has now been, to some extent, counter productive.
My daughter is disabled, though not to the same physical extent as the Baroness, and I have heard plenty of tales about the problem she hits on the railways - so I have no need to try "travelling in a wheelchair for a few months" ! I could be somewhat flippant and say that at least the Baroness had a seat on the train - my daughter now has to plan her journey from Kent to Wiltshire with trains that give her the best chance of her getting a seat at all. Three TOCs and not a seat reservation between them ! Have you tried asking someone in a priority seat to move, when you don't look disabled ??
The Baroness will undoubtedly receive fullsome apologies from everyman and their dog, every time she travels by train the TOC will be alerted to her every movement and all will be well...............but will there be any difference for the millions of other disabled passengers struggling on the railways ................NO !
| Re: Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train Posted by Fourbee at 10:42, 31st August 2024 | |
...so the situation AIUI from this thread was booked assistance was for the previous train, so the train that arrived at King's Cross was TUAG from Leeds; so the responsibility is on Leeds' station staff to contact King's Cross in this scenario?
| Re: Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train Posted by BahnCard100 at 10:29, 31st August 2024 | |
Thank you JayMac, whole-heartedly agree. In the case of the Baroness she was perfectly entitled to change her plans, she was assisted on to the London train at Leeds, and, in my own experience, assistance would/should have been arranged at the other end.
| Re: Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train Posted by JayMac at 23:18, 30th August 2024 | |
Some overtones of ableism in earlier comments here, and on social media.
Passengers with disabilities DO NOT have to book assistance. Passengers with disabilities are allowed to change their travel plans. Network Rail and National Rail promote 'turn up and go' assistance for people with disabilities, alongside the book in advance Passenger Assist.
This isn't the first time Baroness Grey-Thompson has had to crawl of a train at a major London terminus. She's experienced a similar situation at London Euston in the past. And just last week she was refused travel at Aylesbury as staff there said they weren't trained to use the supplied ramps.
As a peer and a public figure she has a voice that is listened too. Too many people with disabilities aren't so fortunate and don't get apologies from chief execs, chairpersons, and ministers when they are let down by the railways.
To those criticising Baroness Grey-Thompson, questioning her actions, suggesting she's somehow in the wrong, then may I propose you try a few months of train travel in a wheelchair... you may find it enlightening.
On a few occasions I've booked assistance and requested 'turn up and go' help as part of mystery shopping scenarios with TOCs and Network Rail. Only one of those 'shops' was faultless.
| Re: Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train Posted by TaplowGreen at 21:32, 30th August 2024 | |
Well, there's a thing.....a full and unequivocal apology to Baroness TGT from the noble Lord Hendy without an ounce of the cynicism on display from some members here.
Is this what is meant by "peer to peer"?
| Re: Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train Posted by ChrisB at 19:40, 28th August 2024 | |
Strangely, Dame TGT 'forgot' to mention her personal booking while live tweeting as it happened on Monday evening. Strange that.
She only deemed it worth mentioning during her BBC Radio 4 Today interview on Tuesday.
Strange that.
| Re: Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train Posted by Clan Line at 18:49, 28th August 2024 | |
Turns out that Tanni had booked her own assistance on an earlier service that she missed.
Question then is whether she cancelled / updated that booking as if it wasn't, the staff at KGX would have turned up for the service that she missed, why wouldn't they?
Question then is whether she cancelled / updated that booking as if it wasn't, the staff at KGX would have turned up for the service that she missed, why wouldn't they?
There are lots of entirely reasonable questions to be asked about this incident - the BBC couldn't even put out the same details on TV/Radio/website. The longest report on TV didn't even mention which train she was booked on. The "cleaners" seemed to come in for some (unwarranted ?) criticism - did they "refuse" to help or was an assumption made that they weren't "insured" to help ? Another stick to beat the TOC with ?
I'm afraid that this tale comes across a bit like the "rammed" incident ......................
| Re: Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train Posted by ChrisB at 16:32, 28th August 2024 | |
Turns out that Tanni had booked her own assistance on an earlier service that she missed.
Question then is whether she cancelled / updated that booking as if it wasn't, the staff at KGX would have turned up for the service that she missed, why wouldn't they?
| Re: Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train Posted by CyclingSid at 06:52, 28th August 2024 | |
Kings Cross wouldn't have struck me as remote.
| Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train Posted by Ralph Ayres at 22:35, 27th August 2024 | |
Various references in the BBC item to a legal requirement for level boarding (at all stations however remote, on all trains?) by 2020. However worthy an aim, that was never going to happen so disability campaigners were either hopelessly naive or wilfully misled. Apart from the impracticality of delivering it to that timescale, the cost would have crippled the rail network. No point having level boarding if there are no trains to board!
| Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train Posted by grahame at 18:15, 27th August 2024 | |
David Horne is investigating & will report publicly on his social media.
Wrong board - this was LNER at KGX
Wrong board - this was LNER at KGX
Apologies yes perhaps a moderator could move it to "The Wider Picture"
Moderators very laid back ... but, yes, I will move it to "Wider picture, UK"
| Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train Posted by TaplowGreen at 18:05, 27th August 2024 | |
David Horne is investigating & will report publicly on his social media.
Wrong board - this was LNER at KGX
Wrong board - this was LNER at KGX
Apologies yes perhaps a moderator could move it to "The Wider Picture"
| Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train Posted by ChrisB at 17:36, 27th August 2024 | |
David Horne is investigating & will report publicly on his social media.
Wrong board - this was LNER at KGX
| Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to crawl off a train Posted by TaplowGreen at 17:34, 27th August 2024 | |
On the face of it, pretty poor by the railway.
BBC News - Tanni Grey-Thompson forced to 'crawl off' train
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cq5dqxzggleo
