| Re: What might have been - Westbury to Brussels and Swindon to Paris Posted by Noggin at 23:17, 22nd August 2023 |      |
Even if the UK had been in Schengen with minimal security controls, it's hard to see how Nightstar could have made a profit, particularly against the background of the rise of budget airlines (which itself was a product of EU policy).
A more interesting "what if" is if the 1970s tunnel had gone ahead with a station in White City connecting to the GWML and WCML, not to mention a new 25kV line to the tunnel for passengers and freight. CC 40100s in London, either UK-friendly Corail stock or a UIC-compatible version of the loco-hauled Mk3 stock, a shot in the arm for Speedlink, GWML electrification and maybe even APTs to Paris. We can but dream.
Anyway, take a look at https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/unbuilt-london-the-channel-tunnel-terminus-at-white-city-41056/ for more.
| Re: What might have been - Westbury to Brussels and Swindon to Paris Posted by grahame at 11:50, 22nd August 2023 | |
Brexit has now totally snuffed out any chance of something like this ever happening. Best we can hope for IMHO is a night service to various key destinations in Europe from St. Pancras.
Agreed, and that actually makes better sense. An evening journey to London from Manchester, Mansfield, Moreton-in-Marsh or Melksham, a break of journey and a stretch of the legs there, and then onward overnight travel towards your continental destination of your choice be it Marsailles, Munich, Malmo or Milan makes sense. Don't shunt and sort the carriages - shunt and sort the people.
| Re: What might have been - Westbury to Brussels and Swindon to Paris Posted by IndustryInsider at 10:09, 22nd August 2023 | |
Brexit has now totally snuffed out any chance of something like this ever happening. Best we can hope for IMHO is a night service to various key destinations in Europe from St. Pancras.
| What might have been - Westbury to Brussels and Swindon to Paris Posted by grahame at 05:56, 22nd August 2023 | |
"Nightstar" started testing in August 1996 with regional services planned overnight through the Channel Tunnel. See (here) on Wikipedia. But it was not to be
The 139 carriage stock order began construction in 1992 and continued slowly until the whole project was put on hold in 1997, then formally abandoned in 1999. The reasons for the delay in the start of operations and then the final cancelling of construction are similar to those given for the non-start of Regional Eurostar service: primarily due to rising costs and competition from low-cost airlines such as Ryanair and EasyJet.
and
In retrospect, the service was ill-conceived. So many trains to various destinations would probably have been poorly used, and security at some stations would have been expensive, because security-cleared international travellers would have needed to be separated from local passengers. Eurostar also neglected the core routes from London to Paris and Brussels, claiming these were not needed because of the short journey time, but overlooking that morning meetings otherwise require an overnight stay or a very early start. A late night departure and early morning arrival on the London to Paris/Brussels/Amsterdam/Cologne axis, with internal connections elsewhere, would have had better potential.
Security issues aside (and they are considerable) I have to wonder if the Nightstar was an idea ahead of its time. With new environmental concerns, is there a market there now? The "trains is other liveries" website had a photoshopped picture of a 153 at Blaenau Ffestiniog in Nightstar livery and one wonders what traffic from there to the other end of the route - perhaps Venlo - might have been ... but yet ...
