Graham - I seem to recall you kindly offered to seek the outcome of this survey from GWR and how the feedback was going to be taken forward - any news?

 
I imagine theat they thought that the industrial action would have been solved by then, then? No point in inviting trouble when you don't need to by trying to run services when you aren't expected to?

 

Given that there are no Boxing Day services this year (again), I wonder what the overall response to this survey was like?

 

Yes that sounds about right.

 

I doubt it would be profitable hence why I said that I don’t think the DfT will want to pay for it.  Many services are not profitable on normal days of the week, and I would expect staff would need to be offered triple time in order to get enough volunteers in.  I think the DfT would rather have crowding on the day after Boxing Day than pay to split the numbers over both days.

I don’t think the extra journeys that will be made (i.e. not abstracted from the following day) would justify the cost from their perspective. 

For clarity, I think there should be a more widespread Boxing Day service from a social perspective, and I agree with ChrisB that the day of the week it falls on can sway the argument from one year to the next.

 
Depends on which day that Boxing Day falls on.

If a Friday or weekend, then the following day(s) are also babk holidays & few people will want to travel (footie supporters alone won’t be sufficidnt in my view) before they need to.

If Boxing Day falls on any other weekday, then the following day is a workdY for most, & take up of seats will be very heavy in order to work the following day

 

Do you not think it would be profitable (or at least relatively revenue neutral?) to run (for example) a Sunday service on key routes on Boxing Day?

 
I can’t see the DfT paying for it TBH.  Perhaps the Elizabeth Line as they are all DOO and AIUI Boxing Day work is already included within their terms and conditions of the drivers.

 
Now that the poll has closed, I have submitted our response.  Page 2 of questions turned out to be just name and email address.  Input has been validated via a confirmation email and I like the way that that survey software confirm my answers in a .pdf to be sure of what I / we had said. 

Thank you everyone for helping with putting our passenger views forward to GWR.  It will likely appear to have gone into a fog for a while, but this is something we can pick up again with GWR later in the year.  I would be amazed at much change for Christmas 2023, but perhaps for 2024 ... who knows? ...

 
The service wouldn’t run, unless a diversion was possible. That is a main reason they don’t currentky try & run

 
One point on the engineering side of things...
If a service is to run with bus substitution somewhere on route, what would the possibility of getting said replacement buses on Boxing Day?

 
First stab at a reply ... based on inputs so far. Comments welcome.

---

Should GWR run trains on Boxing Day? If so, what service, who would use them, and what should be done about all the engineering works going on at the time?

The question was asked of the "Coffee Shop Forum" members - a passenger forum covering the GWR territory, and over 40 of our members answered at http://gwr.passenger.chat/27419

1. 76% of respondents said that trains SHOULD run , 22% no service and 2% "don't know".

2. Travel to and from sporting fixtures, sales and family gatherings. Mostly day return journeys over medium to longer distance, but some single journeys as people move on from one Christmas visit to another or start or end family visits.

2a. There has been a great deal of discussion of this over the years on the forum, and a number of our members would use the services themselves. I would be reasonably comfortable to suggest that marketed appropriatly, and tuned for the markets described, would be well used. These are, however, markets which are sensitive to fare levels and the day could present a real promotion opportunity to those who are not normally rail users rather than a "squeeze as much income as possible" day.

3. 80% of respondents who said trains should run opted for a Sunday service (other options of weekday service, strikeday service and something else shared the remaining votes). However there are a number of write-in qualifications which are worthy of a read.

4. Little comment was made on engineering works. Past experience of the markets concerned suggests that people would prefer to stay on a train with a longer diversion route in preference to a bus service.   Marketed well ahead, major station closures (your Paddington example) could be acceptable provided that passenger alternatives were provided.  You at GWR are experts at this - the Elizabeth line would seem a logical alternative there.  Bristol Temple Meads - perhaps Lawrence Hill calls?   No comment on longer closures at other times of possibly busier travel; planned carefully, perhaps Boxing Day service would be busier anyway.

 
Edit Thank you, Infoman, for editing your comments which had come across badly. -- graham

 
Infoman

I refer you to your often-made comment to me!

If you can’t be civil, please press ‘ignore’ button or don’t choose to read.

Sorry mate, but I’m never as rude as you have been above

 
I would have thought most of the travellers would be on free passes.

 
I'd certainly like to see a Boxing Day service and would most likely use it too.  Plymouth - Ealing Broadway for a Brentford home match.  Boxing Day is very much like a regular Sunday in terms of what is open generally and I don't think the transport system should be any different.   My vote is for a Sunday service.   

 
Some Other Service

Completely dependent upon the results of a comprehensive potential passenger survey but probably a few reasonably early morning and early(ish) evening trains to cover family & friends visits and sporting event attendance with, possibly, limited 'lunchtime' services to take care of half-day trips.

And if that can't be done without signalling and station staff being required to work all day then do that and run a mainly two-hourly interval service between 0800 & 2000 or thereabouts.

 
The Southern Region was the last to run anything like a widespread Christmas Day service across their patch in the 1960s and it was at a level of around half the Sunday service for a period in the middle of the day that could be accommodated by one shift turn following the agreements of the time. Certainly has echoes of the recent strike service. Not sure such a really early finish would make a Boxing Day service worthwhile though today.

 
It's good to have a day that culturally is a 'quiet' day - I don't think Sundays tick that box any more – and given many people only have 2/3 days for a weekend, Sunday travel is necessary. So perhaps Boxing Day is the last opportunity for enforced serenity.

But there are many reasons to need to travel - not least people in essential jobs getting work, let alone those who don't want to have to choose which side of the family web to visit. Could argue the same for Xmas day itself of course, but one day having to make other arrangements is less hardship than two.

I nearly went for Strike Days but it could probably do with being a bit better than that. Perhaps a similarly minimal service, but covering a bit less tight – more routes, somewhat longer day, in order to present realistic travel opportunities. And tailor it to local demand needs such as sporting events and maybe even key shopping destinations, although I think there's a strong case for a cultural shift to not having that sort of thing on boxing day (see above) – keep essential local shops open, but not the big shopping 'destinations'.

It's hard to judge demand, of course. Perhaps some people will just assume no service for the first two years; having said that, I've known people to be surprised to check NRE and find nothing, several years in a row, so who knows! Where TOCs ran limited services I think the reports were that demand was low, but it would be different if a bigger range of connections became available as more journeys would be possible.

 
The history. When BR first decided to axe Boxing Day services in 1975 it was criticised by ASLEF as a potential precedent for running no trains on any Bank Holiday. "Very nice for our members but a bad move for passengers", said Ray Buckton. That year Boxing Day fell on Friday and the thinking then was that trains would not be used as people would stay where they were through to the weekend. Trains were back three years later but were cut again when Boxing Day was next on Friday and have never come back with a widespread service since.

The service that was run before that period was common for other Bank Holidays, ie a normal service but with a later start and the peaks thinned out. It is hard to judge when a service hasn't been provided for so long as to what the demand might be but a Sunday service wouldn't be a bad place to experiment from.

The last time a Christmas Day service was run in the Western Region was 1961.

 

Interesting to read about the low numbers on Crosscountry, I reckon I could name up to 20 people alone that I know that go to all away games by train, and are often on Crosscountry services

As for Boxing Day, I know that the Taunton to Temple Meads corridor (stopping service) would be of a MASSIVE benefit if Bristol City were playing at home on Boxing Day

As for the mention above about people being given two days off over Christmas, I'm never sure why it is assumed that people do want these days off
Many people don't have families etc, and would be more than willing to work, and then you can take into account all the ethnic staff that don't celebrate Christmas that would be able to work

 
I am in a small minority in voting for no trains on boxing day.

I would like Boxing day to be a proper public holiday, with the following prohibited from opening.
Supermarkets and other large store, as defined under Sunday trading rules.
Large scale or professional sporting events, any event that needs paid staff, or for which an admission charge is made.
Theatres, cinemas, and circus type events.
Nightclubs and the like.

I would allow the following to open.
Places of worship, provided that no admission charge is made.
Local sporting or cultural events provided that no paid staff are engaged and that no admission charge is made.
Pubs and restaurants, provided that no admission charge is made.

Time to make boxing day a "proper" public holiday with only essential workers in utilities, the emergency services  and the like being expected to work.

 
So we are talking here about Boxing day on Wednesday 27 December?

As I am a big football fan,
can persons stop running away with the idea that football followers in the Greater western Region area travel to away games by train.

I travel to all away games by train,and I rarely see more that TWENTY Bristol City followers travelling on cross country trains and lots of them are on railway pass's

football match's will be played on Saturday 23rd December,and I would expect that most clubs will wanna play on the Tuesday(26 december)
to prepare for games on the weekend of saturday 30th december.

I presume this is a GWR questionare,so this will not concern cross country trains.

The only teams that Bristol City could be playing on GWR's patch are Millwall QPR Reading Cardiif Swansea and Plymouth.

As most of the votes look like a yes to a Sunday service,I would prefer an input into the departure times,what ever the majority would like,and the calling points.
maybe a 05:00am service from Bristol Parkway to BTM bath chippenham Swindon didcot reading and Paddington.
Then a gap to approx 07:00am
 

 
I would support a Boxing Day service.

 
It is partly a cyclical thing.  Where the 26th December falls on a weekend and the bank holiday is moved to the 27th or 28th there is less pressure for people returning from Christmas away to start work on the 27th.  However on the years when the day after Boxing Day is nominally a working day there might be case from holiday destinations.

Where shops are open there are workers who need to get there.  We see a number on the early Sunday TransWilts service to Swindon - no reason to suppose they wouldn't use it on Boxing Day - especially with no local buses in most areas.

 

Pretty much my view. Well, other than the bit about football matches obvs.

 
Sunday service if there can be assurance that crew shortage won't scupper it and ruin customers plans.......I appreciate that "if" is doing some pretty heavy lifting there.

 
Voted no service.
Good to have staff with two actual Christmas days off.

 
I replied in favour of Sunday services.
Personally I am highly unlikely to use them but I can see benefit for family visits / post Christmas returns, and for city visits such as football matches and Boxing Day sales..

 
I have received a survey email from Jane Jones at GWR:


I have until 30th April to respond via a form which looks like a personalised URL. So I am not sharing that here, but rather looking for a combined Coffee Shop input; I will write up based on inputs and discussions here.

Page 1 of 2 asks

1. Do you think we should introduce some rail services on Boxing Day?

2. Who do you think would use services on Boxing Day?
2a. If you answered Yes - Do you have any evidence/reports that would support your view?
2b. If you answered No – why do you think they would not be helpful

3. Do you have any thoughts about which routes/services should be the priority if we do introduce Boxing Day services? Please let us know why you think these would be good options

4. Network Rail use the closure of the railway over Christmas to complete intensive improvement work. Would you still support Boxing Day services if
 a) They included the use of diversionary routes or replacement rail buses
 b) It meant that improvement work was extended on to other possibly busier travel dates
 c) If key routes or stations – such as London Paddington were closed

Page 2 of 2 ... I have NOT advanced the survey so I don't know the questions.  I don't want to risk loosing the opportunity to enter by advancing if this is indeed a single shot survey, but bearing in mind the nature f questions 1 to 4 it'll be along the lines of "would you like feedback" rather than being substantive extra data requests.

I am really happy that we are being asked ... rather than this coming up too-late before Christmas and then resulting in disquiet for a few days before being forgotten about again.  Even if you are a cynic who feels that the question is being asked just to tick a "consultation" box, it IS worth us answering - showing interest and having this on the agenda and in the thoughts of GWR, DfT, GBR, etc