| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by chrisr_75 at 01:09, 21st July 2016 |      |
This dispute has the markings of a proxy war between the unions, who know they are on reasonably solid ground, and the government in the shape of a highly paid civil servant who seems to have made it his life's mission to solve a major problem that didn't exist before he was appointed (at well over the Prime Minister's salary).
A golden opportunity exists for the new transport minister to sort this out, and gain major kudos for both himself and his party. A further opportunity exists for the Brighton line to become a new "Miners' Strike". I hope common sense prevails.
A golden opportunity exists for the new transport minister to sort this out, and gain major kudos for both himself and his party. A further opportunity exists for the Brighton line to become a new "Miners' Strike". I hope common sense prevails.
I can see how the government could perhaps want this to become another miners strike as they may have ambitions to attempt to weaken one of the more militant and disruptive sections of the union movement.
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by TonyK at 23:34, 20th July 2016 | |
This dispute has the markings of a proxy war between the unions, who know they are on reasonably solid ground, and the government in the shape of a highly paid civil servant who seems to have made it his life's mission to solve a major problem that didn't exist before he was appointed (at well over the Prime Minister's salary).
A golden opportunity exists for the new transport minister to sort this out, and gain major kudos for both himself and his party. A further opportunity exists for the Brighton line to become a new "Miners' Strike". I hope common sense prevails.
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 22:32, 20th July 2016 | |
From the BBC:
Southern rail dispute: Rail minister says government could broker talks
Brighton station was closed on Tuesday evening to help ease overcrowding after a points failure caused more delays
New rail minister Paul Maynard has said the government will consider brokering talks between Southern and the RMT union to try to end their dispute.
Passengers have suffered months of delays, cancellations and a reduced timetable amid staff shortages and strike action by conductors.
Mr Maynard said the current level of service was "unacceptable".
It comes as London mayor Sadiq Khan reiterated his call for Transport for London to take over the franchise.
In a letter to new Transport Secretary Chris Grayling, Mr Khan said: "There is no doubt that the franchise must now be in default, and I have previously called for your department to step in and take control. Notwithstanding the wider discussions on devolution, I now offer to go one step further and put my senior TfL (Transport for London) team in charge of the Southern franchise until we get a permanent resolution."
RMT general secretary Mike Cash said: "Passengers and staff alike are being held hostage by this failed rail operation and the silence from the new team at the DfT (Department for Transport) is deafening."
Mr Cash added that there had to be "urgent action" to remove Govia Thameslink Railway, the company that owns Southern, and bring in Directly Operated Railways (a holding company set up by the DfT to run rail franchises deemed to need to be publicly owned) "before there is a major disaster".
But Mr Maynard told a Transport Select Committee hearing: "Simply changing the management will not help because that would not address the issues in dispute and would only cause further disruption."
Southern and the RMT are in dispute over the introduction of driver-only trains on which guards will no longer open and close doors
Southern and the RMT are in dispute about plans for drivers, rather than guards, to open and close carriage doors.
At the hearing, committee member Huw Merriman MP - who uses Southern trains to commute to Parliament - said the union wanted guarantees from the government over the long-term job security of guards, which Southern could not provide past the end of its current franchise. He said it was "gobsmacking" that the DfT had not held talks with both parties recently, and called for it to sit down with them and "be part of that effort to bring a resolution".
Mr Maynard replied: "I certainly would not rule that out. I will take advice and, where we can, seek to do that."
Southern has apologised for the disruption.
Brighton station was closed on Tuesday evening to help ease overcrowding after a points failure caused more delays
New rail minister Paul Maynard has said the government will consider brokering talks between Southern and the RMT union to try to end their dispute.
Passengers have suffered months of delays, cancellations and a reduced timetable amid staff shortages and strike action by conductors.
Mr Maynard said the current level of service was "unacceptable".
It comes as London mayor Sadiq Khan reiterated his call for Transport for London to take over the franchise.
In a letter to new Transport Secretary Chris Grayling, Mr Khan said: "There is no doubt that the franchise must now be in default, and I have previously called for your department to step in and take control. Notwithstanding the wider discussions on devolution, I now offer to go one step further and put my senior TfL (Transport for London) team in charge of the Southern franchise until we get a permanent resolution."
RMT general secretary Mike Cash said: "Passengers and staff alike are being held hostage by this failed rail operation and the silence from the new team at the DfT (Department for Transport) is deafening."
Mr Cash added that there had to be "urgent action" to remove Govia Thameslink Railway, the company that owns Southern, and bring in Directly Operated Railways (a holding company set up by the DfT to run rail franchises deemed to need to be publicly owned) "before there is a major disaster".
But Mr Maynard told a Transport Select Committee hearing: "Simply changing the management will not help because that would not address the issues in dispute and would only cause further disruption."
Southern and the RMT are in dispute over the introduction of driver-only trains on which guards will no longer open and close doors
Southern and the RMT are in dispute about plans for drivers, rather than guards, to open and close carriage doors.
At the hearing, committee member Huw Merriman MP - who uses Southern trains to commute to Parliament - said the union wanted guarantees from the government over the long-term job security of guards, which Southern could not provide past the end of its current franchise. He said it was "gobsmacking" that the DfT had not held talks with both parties recently, and called for it to sit down with them and "be part of that effort to bring a resolution".
Mr Maynard replied: "I certainly would not rule that out. I will take advice and, where we can, seek to do that."
Southern has apologised for the disruption.
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by broadgage at 17:00, 15th July 2016 | |
The rail minister has previously stated that they did NOT believe etc
...according to the BBC.
Paul
...according to the BBC.
Paul
Thanks, I have now edited to remove the misleading typo.
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by paul7575 at 16:48, 15th July 2016 | |
The rail minister has previously stated that they did NOT believe etc
...according to the BBC.
Paul
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by broadgage at 15:29, 15th July 2016 | |
The rail minister, Ms. Perry has just resigned.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36805973
No reason has been given, but one might reasonably speculate that the ongoing Southern fiasco might have something to do with it !
The rail minister has previously stated that they did NOT believe that resigning would help, though admitting that the Southern GTR fiasco "looked like a failure"
EDIT to correct misleading typo by inserting NOT
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 13:42, 13th July 2016 | |
... but not lost forever: I took a copy, purely for the record.
The wording of that page on wikipedia, this morning:
Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR) is a train operating company and torture device that operates the Thameslink, Southern and Great Northern (TSGN) rail franchise. Within the franchise, GTR runs the Thameslink, Great Northern, Southern and Gatwick Express airport services.
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by IndustryInsider at 13:05, 13th July 2016 | |
Now gone...
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by TeaStew at 12:20, 13th July 2016 | |
P.S. Can anyone spot the slight 'error' currently on the Wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Govia_Thameslink_Railway
That's funny. I wonder how long it has been like that? Aren't modern, media-savvy companies supposed to have people who keep an eye on injudicious edits of Wikipedia and suchlike?
Since 05.11 this morning (13th July) so not too long!
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by patch38 at 11:47, 13th July 2016 | |
P.S. Can anyone spot the slight 'error' currently on the Wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Govia_Thameslink_Railway
That's funny. I wonder how long it has been like that? Aren't modern, media-savvy companies supposed to have people who keep an eye on injudicious edits of Wikipedia and suchlike?
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 11:42, 13th July 2016 | |
Oh, the irony!
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by IndustryInsider at 11:01, 13th July 2016 | |
It's a different scenario in that GTR, who run Southern, give fare income straight to the DfT and are paid a management fee to operate the service. Therefore their relationship with the DfT is very different - you could argue that it is the DfT that has allowed their service to become so frail at the moment. The reason for the franchise model was because of the complications caused by the huge amount of work going on to improve the Thameslink network.
There does also need to be some mechanism for TOC's to be able to change their timetable without penalty for things like engineering work which they don't cause themselves.
However, I agree completely that short notice changes to widespread problems that a TOC did cause themselves, such as ploughing one of their trains into an overhead stanchion, should be penalised in some way, with the 'void day' mechanism being the most sensible one that could be enforced. Delay/Repay, when introduced, should ensure that delays are accepted with the normal timetable as the basis for claims - the Southern website states "Please note that whilst the amended timetable is in place then claims will be accepted against either the amended timetable or the normal timetable." which isn't as clear as I would like, but appears to say that if you turn up for a train in the normal timetable and your journey is delayed by more than 30/60 minutes you can claim 50%/100% of the cost of that journey. If that's the case, then I think that is a fair way of providing compensation for longer term disruption.
P.S. Can anyone spot the slight 'error' currently on the Wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Govia_Thameslink_Railway
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by LiskeardRich at 10:47, 13th July 2016 | |
Nick I believe it is acceptable providing a certain notice period is given.
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by NickB at 08:37, 13th July 2016 | |
On the news last night (10pm ITV?) an interesting question was raised and I am curious as to the views of the forum...
In light of Southern's apparent ability to remove 350 trains from their timetable, causing further overcrowding and cancelling all week day trains from some stations in their entirety, apparently without consequence to franchise nor suitable compensation arrangements to passengers, does this set a dangerous precedent for other operators to pare down their service?
I ask this in light of GWR's apparent avoidance of declaring a void day following the complete suspension of Paddington services after the June derailment, simply by amending the timetable (read: slashing services).
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by paul7575 at 16:27, 11th July 2016 | |
There's a reasonably dispassionate article about GTR's issues on the London Reconnections site.
They highlight the following issues:
Driver Shortage
Rolling Stock issues
London Bridge
Ongoing Signalling Issues
Reactionary delay
Dwell time
Guards dispute
...and then they go on to try and explain some of the background reasons: http://www.londonreconnections.com/2016/railway-roulette/
Paul
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by IndustryInsider at 16:08, 11th July 2016 | |
The company I have recently left allowed x periods of sickness in y months. A period of sickness was defined as consecutive working days absenses. so sick on Monday came in on Tuesday, realised you weren't better and took Wednesday off that was 2 periods of sickness, however taking the whole week off without returning was 1 period.
If taken more than x periods of sickness in the y months, you lost your bonus for the next bonus period.
If taken more than x periods of sickness in the y months, you lost your bonus for the next bonus period.
The railway does have a similar measure, agreed with the unions, called Managing For Attendance. You trigger stage one if you have a certain number of days off sick, or singular instances of sickness. If you have no medical reason and continue to take sick leave you go on to stage two and so on until the final stage, which is dismissal.
It's fairly easy to trigger stage one but not let it get serious enough to get to stage two, and any employee, especially with union backing, finds it gets harder and harder to just dismiss someone for anything other than gross negligence.
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by LiskeardRich at 15:58, 11th July 2016 | |
GTR also decreed that self certification is null and void, so even 1 day sickness means needing a fit note, which then means a wait to see the GP, who are also in dispute with the government...
A GP will not (normally) issue a sick note until day 7. As for getting an appointment, my wife called for an appointment last week, the earliest available appointment for non emergencys....2nd August!
I do remember working for a company years ago who would ask for med certs from day 1 if the person concerned was felt to be swinging the lead (ie large numbers of single day absences on Mondays and/or Fridays), and proper sickness absence procedures had been followed to ascertain if there was any underlying reason.It did cause problems with GPs refusing to issue them, so the person concerned either had to ask the GP to issue a private med cert or see a private GP...........strangely enough the individuals sickness records seem to improve quite suddenly.
The company I have recently left allowed x periods of sickness in y months. A period of sickness was defined as consecutive working days absenses. so sick on Monday came in on Tuesday, realised you weren't better and took Wednesday off that was 2 periods of sickness, however taking the whole week off without returning was 1 period.
If taken more than x periods of sickness in the y months, you lost your bonus for the next bonus period.
Things have changed a lot over the years...........I always remember my first "proper" job in a highly unionised public sector environment about 30 years ago where you were "allowed" 20 days sick per calendar year before any action was even considered (yes, really, 20 days!)..........the number of people who had between 15-19 days off sick per year was amazing, it was really considered to be an additional period of annual leave, you would hear guys saying "I've only got a weeks leave left but I've got two weeks sick too"!
Conversely if you DIDN'T take "enough" sick leave and were perceived not to be playing the game, you could expect a visit from the Union Convener suggesting a week long illness may be prudent to keep the averages up!!!
I actually exceeded 20 days sickness due to reoccurring tonsillitis which is now gone forever, but they only took over 2-3 periods of sickness which was acceptable!
If I had 20 individual days I think I would have been long managed out of the business!
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by TaplowGreen at 14:45, 11th July 2016 | |
GTR also decreed that self certification is null and void, so even 1 day sickness means needing a fit note, which then means a wait to see the GP, who are also in dispute with the government...
A GP will not (normally) issue a sick note until day 7. As for getting an appointment, my wife called for an appointment last week, the earliest available appointment for non emergencys....2nd August!
I do remember working for a company years ago who would ask for med certs from day 1 if the person concerned was felt to be swinging the lead (ie large numbers of single day absences on Mondays and/or Fridays), and proper sickness absence procedures had been followed to ascertain if there was any underlying reason.It did cause problems with GPs refusing to issue them, so the person concerned either had to ask the GP to issue a private med cert or see a private GP...........strangely enough the individuals sickness records seem to improve quite suddenly.
The company I have recently left allowed x periods of sickness in y months. A period of sickness was defined as consecutive working days absenses. so sick on Monday came in on Tuesday, realised you weren't better and took Wednesday off that was 2 periods of sickness, however taking the whole week off without returning was 1 period.
If taken more than x periods of sickness in the y months, you lost your bonus for the next bonus period.
Things have changed a lot over the years...........I always remember my first "proper" job in a highly unionised public sector environment about 30 years ago where you were "allowed" 20 days sick per calendar year before any action was even considered (yes, really, 20 days!)..........the number of people who had between 15-19 days off sick per year was amazing, it was really considered to be an additional period of annual leave, you would hear guys saying "I've only got a weeks leave left but I've got two weeks sick too"!
Conversely if you DIDN'T take "enough" sick leave and were perceived not to be playing the game, you could expect a visit from the Union Convener suggesting a week long illness may be prudent to keep the averages up!!!
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by LiskeardRich at 14:29, 11th July 2016 | |
GTR also decreed that self certification is null and void, so even 1 day sickness means needing a fit note, which then means a wait to see the GP, who are also in dispute with the government...
A GP will not (normally) issue a sick note until day 7. As for getting an appointment, my wife called for an appointment last week, the earliest available appointment for non emergencys....2nd August!
I do remember working for a company years ago who would ask for med certs from day 1 if the person concerned was felt to be swinging the lead (ie large numbers of single day absences on Mondays and/or Fridays), and proper sickness absence procedures had been followed to ascertain if there was any underlying reason.It did cause problems with GPs refusing to issue them, so the person concerned either had to ask the GP to issue a private med cert or see a private GP...........strangely enough the individuals sickness records seem to improve quite suddenly.
The company I have recently left allowed x periods of sickness in y months. A period of sickness was defined as consecutive working days absenses. so sick on Monday came in on Tuesday, realised you weren't better and took Wednesday off that was 2 periods of sickness, however taking the whole week off without returning was 1 period.
If taken more than x periods of sickness in the y months, you lost your bonus for the next bonus period.
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by TaplowGreen at 14:10, 11th July 2016 | |
GTR also decreed that self certification is null and void, so even 1 day sickness means needing a fit note, which then means a wait to see the GP, who are also in dispute with the government...
A GP will not (normally) issue a sick note until day 7. As for getting an appointment, my wife called for an appointment last week, the earliest available appointment for non emergencys....2nd August!
I do remember working for a company years ago who would ask for med certs from day 1 if the person concerned was felt to be swinging the lead (ie large numbers of single day absences on Mondays and/or Fridays), and proper sickness absence procedures had been followed to ascertain if there was any underlying reason.It did cause problems with GPs refusing to issue them, so the person concerned either had to ask the GP to issue a private med cert or see a private GP...........strangely enough the individuals sickness records seem to improve quite suddenly.
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by John R at 00:25, 11th July 2016 | |
Going back to the guards' dispute, what I'm not clear on is what happens in mid August when Govia impose the change to DOO. I've not heard anything to the effect that ASLEF are looking to prevent it, maybe because so many services are already DOO on Southern that contractually they don't have a leg to stand on. If that's the case, does that clear up at a stroke the current problems because an unavailable second member of crew is no longer an issue?
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by LiskeardRich at 23:05, 10th July 2016 | |
GTR also decreed that self certification is null and void, so even 1 day sickness means needing a fit note, which then means a wait to see the GP, who are also in dispute with the government...
A GP will not (normally) issue a sick note until day 7. As for getting an appointment, my wife called for an appointment last week, the earliest available appointment for non emergencys....2nd August!
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by plymothian at 22:57, 10th July 2016 | |
GTR also decreed that self certification is null and void, so even 1 day sickness means needing a fit note, which then means a wait to see the GP, who are also in dispute with the government...
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by John R at 20:59, 10th July 2016 | |
It must be another one, as the main dispute has been in relation to guards.
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by TaplowGreen at 20:41, 10th July 2016 | |
Good news (if this is the dispute in question, or is it another one?)..........no doubt those afflicted by the mystery illness will now rise, Lazarus like from their sickbeds?
RMT strike action among Southern engineering members - suspended
Date: 10 Jul 2015.
The RMT has agreed today to suspend its proposed industrial action amongst Southern engineers following successful talks.
During the forthcoming pay talks, Southern (with the agreement of GTR) will make an offer which will include a reduction in the working week, in a phased way, to a 37 hour week by May 2017 as part of a multi year deal to be negotiated with GTR.
Southern recognises that the hard work and commitment of our engineering staff has contributed towards the efficient operation of the company over the life of the franchise and any pay offer will be fully cognisant of this fact.
In recognition of this the RMT has agreed to suspend the current dispute.
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by LiskeardRich at 19:10, 10th July 2016 | |
Don't you just love the RMT? All this sudden sickness too.....is there a mysterious illness which only affects rail staff during disputes with management?
Every job I've been in when going through tough times, there is a high level of stress related illness.
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by Electric train at 19:06, 10th July 2016 | |
Don't you just love the RMT? All this sudden sickness too.....is there a mysterious illness which only affects rail staff during disputes with management?
Throwing a "sickie" is not really the issue GTR not being able to cover rostered turns by using rest day (overtime) working is more a problem, GTR also have a shortage of Drivers.
There is a serious breakdown in relations between both the management and GTR, evidence of this was the offer by the RMT to call off the strikes for 3 months to allow negotiations to take place GTR dismissed the offer.
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by IndustryInsider at 17:47, 10th July 2016 | |
Don't you just love the RMT? All this sudden sickness too.....is there a mysterious illness which only affects rail staff during disputes with management?
I don't think 'throwing a sickie' because you're not happy with something is exclusive to the railway industry. It annoys me having not had a day off sick now for many years, but it does seem to be a part of our culture, especially in jobs where you get full sick pay and don't end up with extra work to do when you come back as a result.
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by phile at 17:41, 10th July 2016 | |
The DFT are in the background and pushing GTR. It is their agenda.
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by TaplowGreen at 17:29, 10th July 2016 | |
Don't you just love the RMT? All this sudden sickness too.....is there a mysterious illness which only affects rail staff during disputes with management?
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by Electric train at 17:06, 10th July 2016 | |
The Government will want a couple of industrial disputes ( a few on the railways and the Junior Doctors) to take the publics focus away from Brexit so the Government can do a deal with the EU (note the deal with the EU will not suit the 52 percenters or the 48 percenters)
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by IndustryInsider at 14:04, 10th July 2016 | |
Disquiet at the rather shambolic situation Southern currently finds itself it is reaching a crescendo:
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/southern-railway-desperate-commuters-to-hold-victoria-station-protest-a3292251.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3683086/Now-PASSENGERS-say-ll-strike-refusing-pay-fares-rail-chaos-bad-forcing-commuters-house.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
Similar problems on Scotrail, and, let's not forget, that GWR will be trying to do (or should that be DOO) a very similar thing shortly when the IEP/SET/AT300 trains are introduced next year. Whatever side of the argument you personally believe is right, the chances of more industrial action on GWR is increasing. It will be interesting to see how the Southern and Scotrail situations develop.
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by ChrisB at 09:04, 20th April 2016 | |
Conductors may not be responsible for doors but I'm damn sure they would be responsible in an evacuation.....
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by JayMac at 00:47, 20th April 2016 | |
This is what GTR have said in a staff bulletin. One that was posted on Facebook:
Dear all
Following Andy Bindon^s letter last week I wanted to bring you an update on our union position surrounding the On-Board Supervisor role and the introduction of 12-car trains on Gatwick Express.
You may already know that we want to introduce a new role into GTR by July this year. This role would be an evolution of the current on board roles (revenue protection and conductor) and would be more focused on customer service.
On Southern services it would mean drivers operating the doors (on rolling stock equipped for it) freeing up the conductors on these trains. Across all routes it means providing additional training to all on board teams to create this newly evolved role.
The role would allow our on-train teams to spend a lot more time interacting with passengers, providing information, checking and selling tickets and providing reassurance on our services. The added flexibility of a role that is not linked to operational duties also means we can have our teams where they are needed most, so passengers are more likely to see a member of staff on board the train.
We are committed to having no compulsory redundancies as a result of our proposals. There will be a job in GTR for everyone who wants to work here and help us modernise the railway, our proposals are a natural evolution of a really important role.
Our aim was to consult meaningfully with the recognised trade unions, RMT, TSSA and ASLEF. Unfortunately, despite our attempts to consult not only on these changes but on many of the issues that are important to our conductor and revenue teams, the unions do not want to enter into meaningful discussions with us. Legally this now means we will be forced down the unfortunate road of having to make our conductor role redundant (on services where the drivers can operate the doors) and then re-employ those people into the new on board role. This is a regrettable position to be in and we want to make very clear that there will still be no compulsory redundancies. This is purely a legal obligation that has been placed on us in these circumstances.
If you would like to find out more about the On-Board Supervisor role and our current position we have uploaded all the relevant documents onto our intranets.
So, we remain committed to introducing the new role because we feel it is the right thing to do to in order to bring a more modern approach to how we run this franchise while developing our teams through more training and new skills. We value highly our on board teams and the essential service they provide to our passengers and we must be pragmatic about keeping up with developments of technology and customer expectations. Our aim is to modernise the role, bringing flexibility and operational benefits.
Our conductors have been balloted for strike action surrounding these proposals; any industrial action would clearly have a significant impact on the business and our passengers. The ballot is due to close on 19 April and we^ll provide further updates on the results when we know more.
Update on Gatwick Express
On Friday, ASLEF wrote to Gatwick Express announcing it intends to ballot for strike action against the introduction of the new 12-car fleet. The Gatwick Express trains have been operated by drivers, without conductors for many years, but the introduction of the new fleet is being viewed as an extension to Driver Only Operation by the unions. The introduction of new more reliable trains with better facilities and more carriages is a key part of the solution to improving the rail service for our passengers, and we are disappointed that ASLEF has taken this position.
We urge ASLEF to reconsider and put our passengers first. These trains are much better with WiFi, more space for luggage and are fully accessible. Clearly this position may impact our service over the coming weeks and we want to keep you in the loop as these situations unfold.
Commitments to our people
Our people commitments aim to bring reassurance to affected colleagues as we continue to discuss and agree our plans to modernise the railway. Though times of change can be unnerving we hope these commitments show we are dedicated to making things better.
^ There will be a job for everyone who wants to be part of GTR and who is willing to help us to modernise and transform our business
^ The roles will be more varied and you^ll be trained in all the skills and behaviours to succeed in your new roles
^ The changes will happen without any compulsory redundancies or reduction in salaries
^ We will listen to you and involve you as much as we can to evolve and refine the plans
^ You will have the right tools and information to do your job and we^ll make sure you^re safe while you^re doing it
We will bring you more details as soon as we are able to and we welcome any questions you have. Please continue to send your questions to <redacted>
Kind regards
Alex Foulds
Passenger Services Director - Southern
Following Andy Bindon^s letter last week I wanted to bring you an update on our union position surrounding the On-Board Supervisor role and the introduction of 12-car trains on Gatwick Express.
You may already know that we want to introduce a new role into GTR by July this year. This role would be an evolution of the current on board roles (revenue protection and conductor) and would be more focused on customer service.
On Southern services it would mean drivers operating the doors (on rolling stock equipped for it) freeing up the conductors on these trains. Across all routes it means providing additional training to all on board teams to create this newly evolved role.
The role would allow our on-train teams to spend a lot more time interacting with passengers, providing information, checking and selling tickets and providing reassurance on our services. The added flexibility of a role that is not linked to operational duties also means we can have our teams where they are needed most, so passengers are more likely to see a member of staff on board the train.
We are committed to having no compulsory redundancies as a result of our proposals. There will be a job in GTR for everyone who wants to work here and help us modernise the railway, our proposals are a natural evolution of a really important role.
Our aim was to consult meaningfully with the recognised trade unions, RMT, TSSA and ASLEF. Unfortunately, despite our attempts to consult not only on these changes but on many of the issues that are important to our conductor and revenue teams, the unions do not want to enter into meaningful discussions with us. Legally this now means we will be forced down the unfortunate road of having to make our conductor role redundant (on services where the drivers can operate the doors) and then re-employ those people into the new on board role. This is a regrettable position to be in and we want to make very clear that there will still be no compulsory redundancies. This is purely a legal obligation that has been placed on us in these circumstances.
If you would like to find out more about the On-Board Supervisor role and our current position we have uploaded all the relevant documents onto our intranets.
So, we remain committed to introducing the new role because we feel it is the right thing to do to in order to bring a more modern approach to how we run this franchise while developing our teams through more training and new skills. We value highly our on board teams and the essential service they provide to our passengers and we must be pragmatic about keeping up with developments of technology and customer expectations. Our aim is to modernise the role, bringing flexibility and operational benefits.
Our conductors have been balloted for strike action surrounding these proposals; any industrial action would clearly have a significant impact on the business and our passengers. The ballot is due to close on 19 April and we^ll provide further updates on the results when we know more.
Update on Gatwick Express
On Friday, ASLEF wrote to Gatwick Express announcing it intends to ballot for strike action against the introduction of the new 12-car fleet. The Gatwick Express trains have been operated by drivers, without conductors for many years, but the introduction of the new fleet is being viewed as an extension to Driver Only Operation by the unions. The introduction of new more reliable trains with better facilities and more carriages is a key part of the solution to improving the rail service for our passengers, and we are disappointed that ASLEF has taken this position.
We urge ASLEF to reconsider and put our passengers first. These trains are much better with WiFi, more space for luggage and are fully accessible. Clearly this position may impact our service over the coming weeks and we want to keep you in the loop as these situations unfold.
Commitments to our people
Our people commitments aim to bring reassurance to affected colleagues as we continue to discuss and agree our plans to modernise the railway. Though times of change can be unnerving we hope these commitments show we are dedicated to making things better.
^ There will be a job for everyone who wants to be part of GTR and who is willing to help us to modernise and transform our business
^ The roles will be more varied and you^ll be trained in all the skills and behaviours to succeed in your new roles
^ The changes will happen without any compulsory redundancies or reduction in salaries
^ We will listen to you and involve you as much as we can to evolve and refine the plans
^ You will have the right tools and information to do your job and we^ll make sure you^re safe while you^re doing it
We will bring you more details as soon as we are able to and we welcome any questions you have. Please continue to send your questions to <redacted>
Kind regards
Alex Foulds
Passenger Services Director - Southern
Also posted on Facebook:
Drivers in the ASLEF union have also been balloted on the issue of the introduction of DOO on 12 car Gatwick Express trains. ASLEF believe, although I've seen no verifiable proof, that there is an agreement in place that limits DOO to 10 cars on Gatwick Express and Southern. With the new position of On Board Supervisor (OBS) being created, trains on Gatwick Express and Southern routes will have two members of staff aboard in the future. The concerns for the drivers is they will become responsible for doors. And more of them with 12 car trains. The concern for conductors is they will no longer have a safety critical role. So the reasons for the disputes with both the RMT and ASLEF are many fold.
Note: 'Gatwick Express' and 'Southern' are brands within the Thameslink, Southern & Great Northern franchise, operated by Govia Thameslink Railway Ltd
| Re: Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by ChrisB at 21:57, 19th April 2016 | |
All aboard the DOO, already 12car Thameslink trains on the Brighton mainline then....
| Southern / Govia Thameslink Railways - ongoing disputes Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 20:13, 19th April 2016 | |
From the BBC:
Southern rail conductors to stage three strikes over supervisor row
Southern trains operate in Sussex, Surrey and parts of Kent and Hampshire
Conductors on Southern railway are to stage three 24-hour strikes in a dispute over changes to their role and the introduction of driver-only trains.
Members of the RMT union will walk out at 11:00 BST on 26 April and at the same time on 10 and 12 May.
The union is against plans for a new grade of on-board supervisor and proposals for drivers to operate doors.
Govia Thameslink said there would be no job losses or cuts in salary and the changes would make staff more visible.
Members of the union were 306 in favour of walkouts and 14 against. A total of 320 votes to one backed other forms of industrial action.
The RMT said it was fighting to keep the conductor grade and the changes were "nothing short of bullying and harassment".
RMT general secretary Mick Cash said the "reward" for the "loyal and professional service" of members was having their "role and responsibility reduced and their hard-earned terms and conditions attacked".
"These trains are desperately over-crowded and the conductors are the eyes and ears preventing a major tragedy on the platforms and carriages," he said. He added the company had already axed catering services, "threatened" ticket offices and delivered "appalling levels of customer service in their drive to milk these routes for every penny they can".
A spokesman for Southern, which is run by Govia Thameslink, described any possible strike action as "unnecessary and damaging". He added: "The changes we are making to the conductor role mean there will be no job losses and no reduction in salary for any staff, whilst passengers will benefit from having more visible staff on trains. We are preparing contingency plans in case a strike does go ahead, but in the meantime we urge the RMT to return to the negotiating table."
Southern operates in Sussex, Surrey and parts of Kent and Hampshire.
Southern trains operate in Sussex, Surrey and parts of Kent and Hampshire
Conductors on Southern railway are to stage three 24-hour strikes in a dispute over changes to their role and the introduction of driver-only trains.
Members of the RMT union will walk out at 11:00 BST on 26 April and at the same time on 10 and 12 May.
The union is against plans for a new grade of on-board supervisor and proposals for drivers to operate doors.
Govia Thameslink said there would be no job losses or cuts in salary and the changes would make staff more visible.
Members of the union were 306 in favour of walkouts and 14 against. A total of 320 votes to one backed other forms of industrial action.
The RMT said it was fighting to keep the conductor grade and the changes were "nothing short of bullying and harassment".
RMT general secretary Mick Cash said the "reward" for the "loyal and professional service" of members was having their "role and responsibility reduced and their hard-earned terms and conditions attacked".
"These trains are desperately over-crowded and the conductors are the eyes and ears preventing a major tragedy on the platforms and carriages," he said. He added the company had already axed catering services, "threatened" ticket offices and delivered "appalling levels of customer service in their drive to milk these routes for every penny they can".
A spokesman for Southern, which is run by Govia Thameslink, described any possible strike action as "unnecessary and damaging". He added: "The changes we are making to the conductor role mean there will be no job losses and no reduction in salary for any staff, whilst passengers will benefit from having more visible staff on trains. We are preparing contingency plans in case a strike does go ahead, but in the meantime we urge the RMT to return to the negotiating table."
Southern operates in Sussex, Surrey and parts of Kent and Hampshire.
