This is a test of GDPR / Cookie Acceptance [about our cookies]
Really irritating test - cookie expires in 24 hour!
Great Western Coffee Shop
Recent Public Posts - [guest]
Re: 'Surveillance pricing'.
In "Fare's Fair" [377990/32345/4]
Posted by Surrey 455 at 18:30, 9th August 2026
 
Sadly, pricing based on what people appear to be able to pay does exist and has for many years. I suspect I have seen it on airline fares where an enquiry gives a price, then (having checked with family) a couple of minutes later the fare offer is higher. 

Skyscanner offers various explanations for airline pricing including this:

How are flight prices calculated?
A little bit of insight
In short, distance and demand are pivotal factors that determine flight ticket prices.

Travel is just like any other valuable commodity, and it’s priced so that when demand is low, prices are low, to stimulate sales. Likewise, when demand is high, prices are high to capitalise on the interest. To do this, airlines set up a pricing schedule for their flights, putting the seats into price ‘buckets,’ and as one ‘bucket’ fills up, they open the next, more expensive one up for purchase.

Re: 'Surveillance pricing'.
In "Fare's Fair" [377989/32345/4]
Posted by stuving at 18:15, 9th August 2026
 
It's probably good to know that surveillance pricing exists. (I didn't.) Prices for items are not displayed and a system checks what it knows about someone and presents a personalised price for that person - which may take account of e.g. their pain point. It could be argued that dynamic pricing / surge pricing is on the way to this, but for the addition of the personal data aspect. It's easy to think how this could go south & become a 'mare for everyone if it crept in to transport ticketing.

Mark

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveillance_pricing

That's natural pricing - or just pricing - isn't it? If you rock up to a little local market in much of the world, looking like a rich foreign tourist, you'll pay the rich-looking tourist price - much more that the locals pay. It's been like that since early antiquity! One of the first uses of writing was for laws and market regulations and records.

We've got used to open pricing - what it says on the label is what you (and everyone else) pay. That needs to be backed up by laws to enforce it. And there are exceptions, e.g. sales by private contract. The biggest example would be housing, where you can never be sure if you'd paid too much or if someone else did a special deal.

Incidentally, if we were logical the buyer would have professional advice on prices, as they need to make a judgement on every house. The seller, who usually has one, has a simple job (pick the best offer) unless they don't sell (in which case they need advice on the value to other buyers). But of course we're not logical in that sense.

Re: 15th August 2026 - Buses to Imber, Wiltshire
In "Buses and other ways to travel" [377988/29807/5]
Posted by ChrisB at 18:02, 9th August 2026
 
Except for your bus ticket which may be bought by card at Warminster station ticket box.

Once on site, there's no wi-fi possible & don't expect much mobile coverage either

Re: 16-17 Railcard - validity extension for 18 year olds
In "Fare's Fair" [377987/32321/4]
Posted by ChrisB at 18:00, 9th August 2026
 
Only 33% off with 16-25 though - so not really an overlap

Re: 15th August 2026 - Buses to Imber, Wiltshire
In "Buses and other ways to travel" [377986/29807/5]
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 18:00, 9th August 2026
 
If I may also offer a timely reminder here, the whole event will be 'cash only', with no card transactions possible, due to the very seasonal nature of this event.

CfN. 


Re: Delay Repay bouncing around
In "Smoke and Mirrors" [377985/32325/3]
Posted by Hafren at 18:00, 9th August 2026
 
I decided to try out a month's RTT+ subscription - probably useful in months where I'm travelling a lot! There were a lot of delays on Southern but by catching earlier late-running trains I could reach the Solent area on time. So it could easily be argued the main bulk of delay was still down to GWR. But it's hard to say which delay was the 'seed' for Delay Repay purposes. Exactly the thing they shuold be working out between themselves. I think sometimes where it's uncertain the system looks at the first leg's TOC without considering the overall working.

Not sure if Delay Repay money comes entirely from the TOC that accepts the claim or comes down to the original ORCATS split.


Re: 'Surveillance pricing'.
In "Fare's Fair" [377984/32345/4]
Posted by ChrisB at 17:59, 9th August 2026
 
Now illegal I believe as prices have to be displayed at first sight

Re: Swindon <-> Westbury service updates and amendments, ongoing discussion - 2026
In "TransWilts line - Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, Westbury, Salisbury" [377983/31359/18]
Posted by Oxonhutch at 17:52, 9th August 2026
 
Surprisingly, if the GWR app is to be believed, the 17:36 appears to have seats as it approaches Castle Cary.



The preceding 17:03 to Penzance seems to only be congested in first class.

In the light of information from II, maybe Mr Creosote was travelling first class that day. 

Re: 15th August 2026 - Buses to Imber, Wiltshire
In "Buses and other ways to travel" [377982/29807/5]
Posted by ChrisB at 17:50, 9th August 2026
 
My understanding is that the buses at those locations will first travel in from the Warminster area, so you may not get such an early start as at Warminster area. That may not bother you.

The reason the say local residents is that there is no car parking provided, so they want those local enough to be able to catch a bus there to to do that or park in Warminster

Re: 15th August 2026 - Buses to Imber, Wiltshire
In "Buses and other ways to travel" [377981/29807/5]
Posted by grahame at 17:18, 9th August 2026
 
Thank you for posting that very timely reminder here, rogerw.

This time, I have every intention of actually attending that event: am I likely to meet any other Coffee Shop forum members - and indeed guest readers - there?

CfN. 

Yes - but not with a Warminster start:
Local residents will also be able to to travel to Imber from Chitterne, Tilshead and the Lavingtons by paying the conductor in cash on the bus.

I can see no definition of "local residents" but in past years anyone has been able to join at Lavingon and I'm pretty sure that's how I will join this year, even though no longer a resident of East Lavington (a.k.a. Easteron). No 272 bus from across the road from us into Devizes, then 3A, 3X, 2 or X2 to Market Lavington or West Lavington.  Saves the early queues at Warminster.

Re: Weymouth line cancellations
In "Heart of Wessex" [377980/32074/19]
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 17:14, 9th August 2026
 

Basically then, it's chit or bust?


... and I've chosen to apologize for some of my own appalling puns here in the past ...

CfN.

Re: 15th August 2026 - Buses to Imber, Wiltshire
In "Buses and other ways to travel" [377979/29807/5]
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 17:00, 9th August 2026
 
Thank you for posting that very timely reminder here, rogerw.

This time, I have every intention of actually attending that event: am I likely to meet any other Coffee Shop forum members - and indeed guest readers - there?

CfN. 

Re: 'Surveillance pricing'.
In "Fare's Fair" [377978/32345/4]
Posted by grahame at 16:54, 9th August 2026
 
It's probably good to know that surveillance pricing exists. (I didn't.) Prices for items are not displayed and a system checks what it knows about someone and presents a personalised price for that person - which may take account of e.g. their pain point. It could be argued that dynamic pricing / surge pricing is on the way to this, but for the addition of the personal data aspect. It's easy to think how this could go south & become a 'mare for everyone if it crept in to transport ticketing.

Mark

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveillance_pricing

Sadly, pricing based on what people appear to be able to pay does exist and has for many years. I suspect I have seen it on airline fares where an enquiry gives a price, then (having checked with family) a couple of minutes later the fare offer is higher.  Do we also see elements of it where prices are available only to new customers?

Even before "internet days", living in a bigger house we got very familiar with quotations for the same service being - we felt - adjusted upwards having seen where we lived.   


Edit note: Minor typo corrected, for clarity. CfN. 

Re: Would YOU ride a train from Istanbul to El Paso?
In "The Wider Picture Overseas" [377977/32344/52]
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 16:41, 9th August 2026
 
Russian level crossing protection is brutal - a ramped sector plates that rise out of the roadway and presents its blunt edge to oncoming road traffic.

Hmm. 

Maybe Network Rail could use some of those engineering features in the UK, to resolve many of the level crossing and bridge bash issues we have here?  Would it also take out the 'Darwin Award candidates' from those pedestrians who squirm through / climb over closing level crossing gates? 

CfN. 

'Surveillance pricing'.
In "Fare's Fair" [377976/32345/4]
Posted by Mark A at 16:24, 9th August 2026
 
It's probably good to know that surveillance pricing exists. (I didn't.) Prices for items are not displayed and a system checks what it knows about someone and presents a personalised price for that person - which may take account of e.g. their pain point. It could be argued that dynamic pricing / surge pricing is on the way to this, but for the addition of the personal data aspect. It's easy to think how this could go south & become a 'mare for everyone if it crept in to transport ticketing.

Mark

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveillance_pricing

Re: Pigeons at railway stations causing problems
In "The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom" [377975/32277/51]
Posted by Mark A at 16:05, 9th August 2026
 
How times have changed.

I am old enough to remember when the Min of Ag (then MAFF, now DEFRA) used to pay you for shooting pigeons. I believe the rate was 6d (=2 1/5 p).

I'm old enough to remember when SWR, for marketing purposes, adopted a cartoon pigeon and seagull pair to represent their passengers and I immediately thought 'Ah, so that's what you think of us.'.

Mark

Re: Pigeons at railway stations causing problems
In "The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom" [377974/32277/51]
Posted by Red Squirrel at 14:21, 9th August 2026
 
How times have changed.

I am old enough to remember when the Min of Ag (then MAFF, now DEFRA) used to pay you for shooting pigeons. I believe the rate was 6d (=2 1/5 p).

I am old enough to remember when pigeons were viewed as so cute there was a kids' TV programme about them…

Not just one!

Re: Weymouth line cancellations
In "Heart of Wessex" [377973/32074/19]
Posted by bradshaw at 14:03, 9th August 2026
 
According to RTT just now.

  This service was cancelled between Weymouth and Bristol Temple Meads due to the planned train being replaced with a slower train (MS).

Re: Cornish mainline and branch line delays - ongoing discussion
In "Shorter journeys in Plymouth and Cornwall" [377972/28556/25]
Posted by njt at 14:03, 9th August 2026
 
Last day of Boardmasters at Newquay, so naturally........................

Cancellations to services between Par and Newquay
Due to a broken down train between Par and Newquay fewer trains are able to run.
Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled.

Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

 

The bid movement out of Newquay will be on Monday morning.  Music goes on till late tonight.

Re: Swindon <-> Westbury service updates and amendments, ongoing discussion - 2026
In "TransWilts line - Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, Westbury, Salisbury" [377971/31359/18]
Posted by IndustryInsider at 13:59, 9th August 2026
 
Well you learn something new every day 
Yes, Hitachi AT300 / Class 80x IET (Intercity Express Train) coaches use a few complementary methods to measure carriage occupancy and seat availability:

1. Air Suspension Load Sensors (Mass/Weight Calculation)

The primary method used for overall coach occupancy on the Class 800, 801, and 802 fleets relies on the secondary air suspension levelling system.
  • How it works: Pressure sensors monitor the air pressure required to maintain the carriage floor at platform height as passengers board.
  • The data: By comparing the pressure differential against an empty baseline, the onboard system calculates the total live mass of the coach.
  • Output: This mass is converted into an estimated passenger count (and percentage loading) and is fed to the passenger information displays (PIS) on station platforms and mobile apps (showing green, amber, or red loading icons). This accounts for both seated and standing passengers.

2. Automatic Passenger Counting (APC) Door Sensors

Infrared / optical barrier sensors are mounted above or beside the passenger access doors.
  • How it works: These sensors count bodies breaking the beam as people enter or exit the train at stops.
  • The data: By tracking net inflow and outflow per carriage, it provides immediate, real-time footfall updates to complement the suspension weight data.

I would say it's pretty accurate most of the time.  If you have a sensor failure then it can lead to erroneous readings, but that's not too common.

Re: Swindon <-> Westbury service updates and amendments, ongoing discussion - 2026
In "TransWilts line - Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, Westbury, Salisbury" [377970/31359/18]
Posted by JohnM at 13:42, 9th August 2026
 
Well you learn something new every day 
Yes, Hitachi AT300 / Class 80x IET coaches use a few complementary methods to measure carriage occupancy and seat availability:

1. Air Suspension Load Sensors (Mass/Weight Calculation)

The primary method used for overall coach occupancy on the Class 800, 801, and 802 fleets relies on the secondary air suspension levelling system.
  • How it works: Pressure sensors monitor the air pressure required to maintain the carriage floor at platform height as passengers board.
  • The data: By comparing the pressure differential against an empty baseline, the onboard system calculates the total live mass of the coach.
  • Output: This mass is converted into an estimated passenger count (and percentage loading) and is fed to the passenger information displays (PIS) on station platforms and mobile apps (showing green, amber, or red loading icons). This accounts for both seated and standing passengers.

2. Automatic Passenger Counting (APC) Door Sensors

Infrared / optical barrier sensors are mounted above or beside the passenger access doors.
  • How it works: These sensors count bodies breaking the beam as people enter or exit the train at stops.
  • The data: By tracking net inflow and outflow per carriage, it provides immediate, real-time footfall updates to complement the suspension weight data.

Re: 15th August 2026 - Buses to Imber, Wiltshire
In "Buses and other ways to travel" [377969/29807/5]
Posted by rogerw at 13:15, 9th August 2026
Already liked by grahame, Chris from Nailsea
 
Just to bump this up. A reminder that this year's event is this coming Saturday, 15th August

Re: Swindon <-> Westbury service updates and amendments, ongoing discussion - 2026
In "TransWilts line - Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, Westbury, Salisbury" [377968/31359/18]
Posted by bobm at 12:29, 9th August 2026
 
It’s data available from IETs derived from sensors on the coaches. 

Re: Weymouth line cancellations
In "Heart of Wessex" [377967/32074/19]
Posted by TaplowGreen at 12:07, 9th August 2026
 
Staffed from 06:00 though the first train appears to be that one for Cardiff at eight.

Our hypothetical passenger for Aberdeen, if given a chit with an easement to vary their route, could travel on the next departure, the 08:45 for Waterloo and a relaxed connection into the 13:42 to Aberdeen from Kings Cross - this would get them into Aberdeen only half an hour or so after their original connecting service from Bristol.

(If their destination was Shetland, they'd have already been planning for a night and a day in Aberdeen as the ferry leaves at varying times between five and seven pm depending on the day, so, from Weymouth, that would need to be a weekday trip, via London - and with one of Graham's 'Plan 'b's in the back pocket.)

Mark

Basically then, it's chit or bust?

Re: Would YOU ride a train from Istanbul to El Paso?
In "The Wider Picture Overseas" [377966/32344/52]
Posted by Oxonhutch at 11:57, 9th August 2026
 
Have done Khabarovsk - Vladivostok on an overnight train. Interesting journey. Russian level crossing protection is brutal - a ramped sector plates that rise out of the roadway and presents its blunt edge to oncoming road traffic.

Re: Weymouth line cancellations
In "Heart of Wessex" [377965/32074/19]
Posted by Mark A at 11:34, 9th August 2026
 
Staffed from 06:00 though the first train appears to be that one for Cardiff at eight.

Our hypothetical passenger for Aberdeen, if given a chit with an easement to vary their route, could travel on the next departure, the 08:45 for Waterloo and a relaxed connection into the 13:42 to Aberdeen from Kings Cross - this would get them into Aberdeen only half an hour or so after their original connecting service from Bristol.

(If their destination was Shetland, they'd have already been planning for a night and a day in Aberdeen as the ferry leaves at varying times between five and seven pm depending on the day, so, from Weymouth, that would need to be a weekday trip, via London - and with one of Graham's 'Plan 'b's in the back pocket.)

Mark

Re: Weymouth line cancellations
In "Heart of Wessex" [377964/32074/19]
Posted by Mark A at 11:14, 9th August 2026
 
Answer: staffed on Sunday from 06:00 to 00:45. (Source: National Rail).

Mark

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/weymouth/

Re: Weymouth line cancellations
In "Heart of Wessex" [377963/32074/19]
Posted by Mark A at 11:11, 9th August 2026
 
Have some anyway, and tbh, at 8am on a Sunday, is Weymouth staffed?

Mark

Re: Swindon <-> Westbury service updates and amendments, ongoing discussion - 2026
In "TransWilts line - Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, Westbury, Salisbury" [377962/31359/18]
Posted by JohnM at 11:00, 9th August 2026
 
Is that based on seat bookings, or actual 'live' occupancy?

Re: Weymouth line cancellations
In "Heart of Wessex" [377961/32074/19]
Posted by ChrisB at 10:26, 9th August 2026
Already liked by TaplowGreen
 
Cwertainly gone over my head.....do I need more coffee?

 
The Coffee Shop forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western). The views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit https://www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site at admin@railcustomer.info if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules. Our full legal statment is at https://www.greatwesternrailway.info/legal.html

Although we are planning ahead, we don't know what the future will bring here in the Coffee Shop. We have domains "firstgreatwestern.info" for w-a-y back and also "greatwesternrailway.info"; we can also answer to "greatbritishrailways.info" too. For the future, information about Great Brisish Railways, by customers and for customers.
 
Current Running
GWR trains from JourneyCheck
 
 
Code Updated 11th January 2025