GDPR / Cookie acceptance [about our cookies] • • • Cookies expire in a week!
Great Western Coffee Shop
Recent Public Posts - [guest]
Re: Spain - At least 64 dead after two trains collide south of Madrid - 28 Oct 2026
In "The Wider Picture Overseas" [381402/32669/52]
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 13:55, 28th October 2026
 
Sadly, the death toll has now risen to 'at least 64', as well as many more injured.

I have amended the heading of this topic accordingly.

CfN.

Re: HOW late is your public transport journey?
In "The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom" [381401/29213/51]
Posted by grahame at 13:00, 28th October 2026
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwj342k62exyo

A luxury cruise ship on a years-long voyage around the world said it suspended operations due to extraordinarily high fuel costs, leaving passengers stranded in Cambodia.

The US-based operator of the Villa Vie Odyssey said it was working with passengers on disembarkation plans and "temporary living arrangements".

It is unclear how many were on board but the nearly 200m (656ft) vessel can carry up to 650 passengers. It departed Belfast in October 2024 for a "continuous voyage around the world".

Re: Sydney Gardens No. 2 Tunnel, Bath. Navigation and towpath closed.
In "Heritage railways, Railtours, buses, canals, steamships and other public transport based attractions" [381400/32604/47]
Posted by Mark A at 12:57, 28th October 2026
 
Bridge data: the site below is useful, as canal bridge numbers, on maps, can be elusive/absent.

Thinking back a couple of years, a phone call from people on the boat to the effect 'We've passed bridge 122 on the 15 mile pound, see you later' caused some head scratching while I found out exactly where bridge 122 might be.

The site below doesn't help with the two Sydney Gardens structures, mind. I recall checking the identification of the tunnel with the issue, and not using A.I. either. K&A bridge numbers are numbered east to west, and, these two structures are numbered west to east... apparently, Bruce Tunnel, on the summit, is referred to as number 3, so the numbering of the two in Sydney Gardens may be... questionable, but cast in stone.

https://www.data.gov.uk/dataset/3bad9280-3167-4a8f-ad12-4fa93297bf51/bridges

Re: Spain - At least 10 dead after two trains collide south of Madrid - 28 Oct 2026
In "The Wider Picture Overseas" [381399/32669/52]
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 11:37, 28th October 2026
Already liked by 1st fan
 
Thank you for that confirmation that you and Lisa are safe, grahame. 

Sadly, the death toll is increasing. From the BBC live news report (which does contain some upsetting scenes):

Dozens feared dead after two trains collide south of Madrid

CfN.

Re: Historical Record Perception - Correction / Confirmation Required
In "South Western services" [381398/32665/42]
Posted by Witham Bobby at 11:16, 28th October 2026
Already liked by Mark A
 
I have lived alongside the Waterloo to Exeter line in or near Pinhoe for all bar three years of my Seventy years and have always been interested in the fortunes of the line. My A-Level Statistics project, which gained an A grade was on the subject of 'Re-doubling the railway between Wilton and Pinhoe'.

However, one significant event in the history of the line puzzles me and I'd like confirmation or correction of my memory please.

Every article I read on the reasons for reducing Wilton South to Pinhoe to mainly single track and thus the route to Secondary status, was down entirely to Dr Beeching. However, my recollection is that was only the beginning - with the closure of several intermediate stations. My recollection is that control of the Salisbury to Exeter route was transferred from BR(S) to BR(W) in the early 60s and that Senior Management of BR(W) did not want two fast routes into the westcountry (the ACE was faster to Exeter than the Cornish Riviera at the time). So, BR(W) throttled the ACE in the timetable and made the decision to reduce the route to Secondary status.

Can somebody confirm / correct my perception please?

*** Correction of unfortunate typo in the first sentence ***


I'd not be surprised in the least bit if the Western management wanted to throttle the Southern road to Exeter (The Mule).  You have only to look at what they did to their own lines with closure of stations and routes wholesale, and singling to "save money".  The S&D was wiped out without much thought.

Having encountered some of the senior management through the 1970s and their unimaginative attitudes, it's quite believable that they just wanted to unburden themselves of loss-making routes and stations.  They were all true believers in the numbers that the closure-orientated accountants came up with.  It's widely understood that the books were cooked to help make the case for closures.

The easy thing to do was to propose closures.  In preference to producing imaginative ways of using the assets and infrastructure to operate the railway less expensively and boost income.

The theory would have been that singling The Mule (with a starting point exactly on the regional boundary at Wilton) and reduction of the service on that route would drive more traffic onto the Western line.  I'm not sure how much that happened.  I suspect that people would have either tolerated the thin service or resorted to their cars for the full journey, rather than bookend a journey to/from London with car or 'bus travel to/from a station remote from where they were starting from or wanted to be

Re: Spain - At least 10 dead after two trains collide south of Madrid - 28 Oct 2026
In "The Wider Picture Overseas" [381397/32669/52]
Posted by grahame at 11:10, 28th October 2026
Already liked by Western Pathfinder, 1st fan
 
For the absence of doubt, Lisa and I are safe in Portugal.  May be interesting getting home as that's potentially on a line we would have used.

Re: Historical Record Perception - Correction / Confirmation Required
In "South Western services" [381396/32665/42]
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 10:53, 28th October 2026
 
Are you sure about that? 

Re: Sydney Gardens No. 2 Tunnel, Bath. Navigation and towpath closed.
In "Heritage railways, Railtours, buses, canals, steamships and other public transport based attractions" [381395/32604/47]
Posted by Mark A at 10:34, 28th October 2026
Already liked by JohnM
 
More likely I've got it wrong. It's either 1 or 2 though.

Spain - At least 64 dead after two trains collide south of Madrid - 28 Oct 2026
In "The Wider Picture Overseas" [381394/32669/52]
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 10:30, 28th October 2026
 
Live reporting, from the BBC:



At least 10 dead after two trains collide south of Madrid, regional official says

Summary

At least 10 people have died after two trains collide south of Madrid, a regional official says - here's what we know so far

More than 500 passengers were travelling on the trains involved, and the death toll "will almost certainly rise", the spokesperson for the regional government says

Spain's Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez says he is "shocked by the serious train accident" and is in constant contact with the transport minister

Rail operator Adif says the incident occurred between a Renfe train and another of the Iryo company, which covers the Madrid to Seville route

A spokesperson for the Spanish emergency services tells AFP "all resources are currently being deployed" including "several fire crews, three helicopters, and two mobile intensive care units"


Re: Historical Record Perception - Correction / Confirmation Required
In "South Western services" [381393/32665/42]
Posted by bradshaw at 09:43, 28th October 2026
 
Castle Cary to Dorchester singled May 1868

Re: Sydney Gardens No. 2 Tunnel, Bath. Navigation and towpath closed.
In "Heritage railways, Railtours, buses, canals, steamships and other public transport based attractions" [381392/32604/47]
Posted by JohnM at 09:28, 28th October 2026
 
Update here: https://bathnewseum.com/2026/10/27/canal-tunnel-update/

BTW it says "Officially known as the Bath Number 1 tunnel" - have they got that wrong?

Re: To 'stockpile food' is now our Government's official policy, apparently
In "The West - but NOT trains in the West" [381391/32456/31]
Posted by TaplowGreen at 08:29, 28th October 2026
Already liked by Western Pathfinder, Witham Bobby
 
It would NOT have to be nuclear bomb to require use of a reserve of water..
Mechanical failures, water works blown up the enemy, power failure etc. are other possibilities


Damn!

In my keenness to plough ahead with digging and equipping my bunker I overlooked the rather obvious possibility of my waterworks being blown up by the enemy....................back to the drawing board!

(I have however picked up some discounted gherkins, marmalade and garlic as of yesterday thanks to the generosity of the Chancellor so my hard tack and salted beef may be a little more palatable as I await the sounding of the all clear, I am hoping for similar reductions in the duty on certain fortified wines later so that I can stock up a little more) 

Re: Historical Record Perception - Correction / Confirmation Required
In "South Western services" [381390/32665/42]
Posted by TaplowGreen at 08:24, 28th October 2026
 
I have loved alongside the Waterloo to Exeter line in or near Pinhoe for all bar three years of my Seventy years

Love this! too much info maybe?

Possibly explains the need for reinforcement work to the embankments?

Re: Historical Record Perception - Correction / Confirmation Required
In "South Western services" [381389/32665/42]
Posted by grahame at 08:08, 28th October 2026
 

Singling took place in 1967 ...


I am NOT an expert on what happened and what didn't ... but I do note that 1967 was also when Thngley Junction to Bradford Junction and Swindon to Kemble were singled, so the singling looks like it was part of a wider process;  whether there was any bias towards being more Draconian on the Salisbury to Exeter line, I know not.

When was Castle Cary to Dorchester singled?

Re: Abbreviations and acronyms resolved within our pages
In "News, Help and Assistance" [381388/24783/29]
Posted by grahame at 07:36, 28th October 2026
Already liked by Chris from Nailsea
 
I am quite deliberately dredging up an old topic here - in the spirit of 'news, help and assistance'.

If any of our new members on the Coffee Shop forum are perhaps puzzled by any abbreviations or acronyms, which haven't already been defined, please do let me know.

My contact details are available in my forum profile - 'personal message' is probably the quicker. 

CfN. 



This page is - VERY MUCH used, and thank you for continued modernisations / updates.

A couple of days ago, I made some security updates that set a net slightly too wide, and I have had a number of reports of people being forbidden from the page.   I have put in an update - a tunnel through the new, added security and it should be working again.   https://www.firstgreatwestern.info/acronyms.html

Re: To 'stockpile food' is now our Government's official policy, apparently
In "The West - but NOT trains in the West" [381387/32456/31]
Posted by broadgage at 01:20, 28th October 2026
 
It would NOT have to be nuclear bomb to require use of a reserve of water..
Mechanical failures, water works blown up the enemy, power failure etc. are other possibilities

Re: Industrial Heritage in Wiltshire conference majoring on railways - 24.10.2026
In "Diary - what's happening when?" [381386/32578/34]
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 22:30, 27th October 2026
 
No, I didn't go for such an £18.50 'stroll', in the end. I'm sure they still managed very well without me.

Re: Storms Austen and Boelo, with following strong winds: modified rail services and infrastructure
In "Across the West" [381385/32650/26]
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 22:15, 27th October 2026
 
I take your point, ChrisB.

I have therefore amended (yet again) the heading of this topic.

CfN.

Re: Good joined up support - freight, passenger services, govt policy, and our MP
In "TransWilts line - Swindon, Chippenham, Westbury" [381384/32666/18]
Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 22:03, 27th October 2026
 
A service with gaps significantly longer than an hour only works for a very small proportion of people (and - Melksham note - that's a gap between when trains run and not when they are timetabled but get cancelled as both the 08:02 and 10:02 were this morning).

I know: that's why I got the excellent Faresaver X34 10:27 bus service from Melksham into Chippenham this morning - and free, with my 'old git' bus pass.

Re: To 'stockpile food' is now our Government's official policy, apparently
In "The West - but NOT trains in the West" [381383/32456/31]
Posted by Oxonhutch at 21:53, 27th October 2026
Already liked by broadgage, GBM
 
With respect, you are rather assuming that the loft's water container will survive the 'survival incident'.

Personally, I would prefer the basement. Big problem:- I don't have a basement; nor a hectare out the back to dig a bunker.

I live within 2 miles of an active secret RAF base, that mainly flies helicopters, and I expect it to be high on the target list of our country's enemies.  I know it is here, and its co-ordinates, and so does Ivan.

My food stockpile will be accessed if: 1: Ivan's rockets have had all of their guidance systems reservoirs depleted of their operational ethanol operating environment (oh, and also tritium with its rather short half life), 2: their rocket propulsion systems work as originally planned (given years of planned maintenance), and 3: their navigation is top notch (dodgy from past performance).

I will be either Ground Zero or looking for window glass replacement.

I have a wind-up radio.

But most of all, a sensible view of what happens if the balloon goes up. My initial survival might be the worst option..

Re: Storms Austen and Boelo, with following strong winds: modified rail services and infrastructure issues
In "Across the West" [381382/32650/26]
Posted by ChrisB at 21:16, 27th October 2026
 
I do note your point, ChrisB, but most of the Scottish press, in particular, have already chosen to name it Chloe.

See the Scottish Daily Express, STV News, Edinburgh News, Yahoo News UK, The National Scot and The Herald Scotland - just for example.

I only quote here what is reported by them: I don't decide whether the content of their news item is accurate - or otherwise.

In cases like these, where the professionals actually do the naming, I would strongly suggest that we report what they do, not what the press would like them to do!

Re: Historical Record Perception - Correction / Confirmation Required
In "South Western services" [381381/32665/42]
Posted by Ralph Ayres at 20:54, 27th October 2026
 
I've never understood how singling an existing line gives any significant saving, except in the short-term if track needs imminent replacement or a problem such as subsidence can be avoided by taking one track out of use.  Longer term there will be minor savings such as less track to inspect, but double track would broadly deteriorate at half the speed with each line only having half the usage, and the track is less complex with fewer sets of points to maintain or go wrong at passing places.  Knock-on delays if one train is late and more widely the lack of flexibility in timetabling when trains can only pass at specific points on single tracks will also incur costs.

Re: To 'stockpile food' is now our Government's official policy, apparently
In "The West - but NOT trains in the West" [381380/32456/31]
Posted by broadgage at 20:27, 27th October 2026
 

I was only 9 years old in early 1974 when the three day week and rolling power cuts were on, so apart from candles and the camping stove being used, can't really remember what else we did.   

Our current newer house doesn't have a cold water tank in loft, but as we are in lower part of town, hopefully mains water won't run dry quickly. Nowadays our heating is electrically controlled but house is better insulated so will stay warm for few days if it shuts down.

It is possible to install a reserve water supply, using cheap mains water, do this as follows.
Install a cold water tank in the loft, filled automatically from the mains water supply via a ball valve.
Connect an outlet this tank about half way up, use this to supply toilet flushing and the washing machine this will ensure regular use of the water and avoid stagnation.
Connect a second outlet near the bottom of the tank, and use microbore copper pipe, supply a hidden tap for reserve drinking water. Copper pipe is preferable to plastic as it is slightly anti bacterial.
 This innvolves a fair bit of DIY but it ensures a reserve of fresh water forever.

Re: Historical Record Perception - Correction / Confirmation Required
In "South Western services" [381379/32665/42]
Posted by bradshaw at 20:03, 27th October 2026
Already liked by Mark A, PhilWakely
 
Born in Crewkerne and lived there until the late 1960s. My recollection that the WR took over the running of the train service at the change of timetable in autumn 1964. One week it was virtually all steam bar a couple of services. With the timetable change in September the Warships had taken over, with a couple of other working by Hymek and dmu. The two surveys we took seem to confirm that.
The Warships were working over the line before that. In August 1964,  D816 was on the 07.30 Exeter Waterloo on the 29th of August. On the same date the 09.30 Exmouth -Waterloo was hauled by D831. The 10.33 Exeter-Yeovil was a dmu, as was its return working to Exeter. D831 returned on the Brighton Plymouth, changing from a Pacific at Salisbury. D816 returned on the 13.00 Waterloo. The Yeovil shuttle was 6430. (Traffic survey at Yeovil Junction 07.30 to 21.44)
On December 24 1964 at Salisbury from 08.20 to 17.00.
 D816 06.20 Exd to Wat, D824 07.30 Exd to Wat, D804 09.00 Wat to Exd, dmu 09.48 Exd to Sal, D810 10.30 Exd to Sal and 34051 to Wat. D869 11.00 Wat to Exd, D813 Brighton to Plymouth (34039 from Brighton). Dmu 10.05 Okehampton to Salisbury, D816 13.00 Wat to Exd, D7046 10.55 Plymouth to Brighton/Portsmouth, change to 34039 at Salisbury. Train to Ilfracombe at 16.20 34012 change to D7046 to the west. D815 14.30 Exd to Wat. D824 15.00 Wat to Exd
All the SR services were steam hauled.
Feinnes p99 onwards gives his side of the story.
Singling took place in 1967 but it was realised that more double track was needed. Luckily the line between Yeovil and Templecombe was still double track so the closed line was reopened.

http://www.trainweb.org/railwest/railco/sr/se1967.html for further detail.

Re: Thames Valley infrastructure problems causing disruption elsewhere - 2026
In "Across the West" [381378/31163/26]
Posted by TaplowGreen at 19:44, 27th October 2026
 

Delays to services between London Paddington and Reading

Following trespassers on the railway between London Paddington and Reading all lines have now reopened.

Train services running to and from these stations are returning to normal. Disruption is expected until the end of the day.

Re: Swindon <-> Westbury service updates and amendments, ongoing discussion - 2026
In "TransWilts line - Swindon, Chippenham, Westbury" [381377/31359/18]
Posted by grahame at 18:08, 27th October 2026
 
19:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Swindon due 21:58

19:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Swindon due 21:58 will be started from Westbury.
It will no longer call at Portsmouth Harbour, Portsmouth & Southsea, Fratton, Cosham, Fareham, Southampton Central, Romsey, Salisbury and Warminster.
This is due to a broken down train.

Re: Good joined up support - freight, passenger services, govt policy, and our MP
In "TransWilts line - Swindon, Chippenham, Westbury" [381376/32666/18]
Posted by grahame at 18:03, 27th October 2026
Already liked by Mark A
 
I am on a suburban train to Porto (so please excuse any typos)  - been to Braga for a couple of hours.  And coming back to the station, I knew there was a train about every hour.  With that frequency, I hadn't bothered to check on my return train simple turning up at the station.  Murphy's law applied, and I walked into an empty Braga station just after the train had left.   Never mind - for an occasional journey, a 58 minute wait wasn't a problem and my laptop, a chance to observe, and a cup of coffee the time soon passed.   No rush to do anything back in Porto.

So - what IS sufficient frequency for a service? 

A service with gaps significnatly longer than an hour only works for a very small proportion of people (and - Melksham note - thats a gap between when trains run and not when they are timetabled but get cancelled as both the 08:02 and 10:02 were this morning).

With a passing loop around Beanacre, an hourly passenger service could be supported - that's double the current service, and running "clock face".  And today I have received a notification that FIRST Great Western Limited is replaced as operator Great Western Railway Limited from 13th December - nationalisation that we have known is coming.  I - hope - that the reliability issues (trains running to timetable) will be sorted out, but I lack any convictions that they will be for that reason.

What the loop WOULD do is double the service and halve the delay when things go wrong.   Actually, it could be rather better - trains out of step including freights would have much shorter (and less obstructive tendencies) waits when something coming the other way is held up - freight trains are REALLY unreliable to the timetabble - often early or late. Futhemore, only 2 trains would be needed to provide the hourly Swindon to Westbury service; without a loop (and without frwight) it would need 3 trains as they have to pass somewhere, and could not do so on the single line.

Currenly trains leave Swindon at 06:03, 08:45, 11:05, 13:14, 15:14, 17:45, 18:44 20:12 and 22:31 and leave Westbury at 07:05, 07:45, 09:45, 12:17, 14:18, 16:23, 18:37 20:06 and 21:16. Just imagine if they left BOTH ends at those time - so that's from Swindon at 06:03, 07:05, 07:45, 08:45, 09:45, 11:05, 12:17, 13:14, 14:18, 15:14, 16:23, 17:45, 18:40, 20:12, 21:16 and 22:31 and Westbury at 06:03, 07:05, 07:45, 08:45, 09:45, 11:05, 12:17, 13:14, 14:18, 15:14, 16:23, 17:45, 18:40, 20:06, 21:16 and 22:31 ... look at all the gaps filled!



Pictured - the HOURLY train from Porto has just arrived in Braga and - oh look - the crowds are flowimg odd. It works!

Re: Transfer of historic railway estate to GBR (aka full circle)
In "Looking forward - the next 2, 5, 10 and 20 years" [381375/32667/40]
Posted by eightonedee at 17:21, 27th October 2026
Already liked by Mark A, Oxonhutch
 
It was interesting to see how these members of the House of Lords could sit around the committee table, and (notwithstanding their different political allegiances) have a civilised and constructive discussion with a remarkable degree of cross-party agreement. Possibly it was easier for milords Young, Grayling and Harper to support this freed from the departmental and Treasury pressures of office?

But, notwithstanding Lord Hendy's commitment, it is difficult to see priority being given to the constructive re-use or devotion of much valuable resource to these assets if they do end up in GBR's ownership. I have had recent experience of dealing with CRT on a "legacy" site, and temper my disappointment with the slowness of their actions by the thought of the vast estate of current and former canal assets (quite a few of which carry considerable potential liability if something fails, as has happened on more than one occasion in recent years) for which they are responsible. I am not sure that moving assets from one balance sheet to another does much to help safeguard them in a world when cost is king, and there are many calls on resources.

Re: Please help the Webmaster - how and where do you browse from?
In "News, Help and Assistance" [381374/32656/29]
Posted by grahame at 16:01, 27th October 2026
Already liked by Marlburian, Mark A, GBM, Witham Bobby
 
Many thanks for all the inputs.     Whilst 100% of you visit from the UK ... at least some of the time ... there's a substantial number from time to time outside the UK and all sorts of technological elements too.    Traffic has been very heavy of late, with numerous automated accesses failing to admit that they are automated - rather faking what type or browser that are, and doing in via all sorts of distributed places.  I am saying "oy" to a number of these - purely to keep traffic down and prevent congestion / gridlock but they are so hard to identify ...

Legal transfer of data - FIRST Great Western Ltd to Great Western Railway Ltd
In "Across the West" [381373/32668/26]
Posted by grahame at 14:19, 27th October 2026
 
From my email ...

Hi Graham,
 
From the 13th of December, GWR will be operated by a new company Greater Western Railway Limited as part of a planned transition into public ownership. Although the legal operator is changing, you'll continue to see the same GWR, and the same teams running your trains.

Responsibility for your personal data will transfer from First Greater Western Limited to Greater Western Railway Limited. This is a legal change only - your data will continue to be handled in the same systems, by the same teams, and used for the same purposes.

You don't need to take any action now. The updated privacy notice for Greater Western Railway Limited will be published on the 13th of December.

Our reasons for collecting and using your data remain unchanged. The new operator will also have some additional responsibilities - such as the Freedom of Information Act - but these won't affect how your data is used day to day.

and

Questions   
 
Why is my data being transferred?
 
The transfer ensures continuity of service with minimal impact on you. First Greater Western Limited is transferring your data in reliance on its legitimate interests (Article 6(1)(f) UK GDPR), having assessed that the transfer is necessary and fair so that services continue to run smoothly.

First Greater Western Limited’s privacy policy explains that your data may be passed to a successor operator if the franchise operations transfer.
 
What data is involved?
 
All personal data held by First Greater Western Limited in connection with rail services will be made available to Greater Western Railway Limited. This may include contact details, booking history, payment records, and customer service correspondence. It will only continue to be used for the same purposes it was originally collected for. Your data will continue to be held only as long as needed to deliver services and meet legal obligations.
 
What are my rights?
 
You still have the same rights under data protection law, including:
 
•   The right to access your data
•   The right to ask for corrections
•   The right to object to processing based on legitimate interests
•   The right to ask for deletion (in some circumstances)
•   The right to restrict how your data is used
•   The right to complain to the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO)
 
You can find out more about your rights at ico.org.uk.
 
You can find out more about programme to transfer rail services into public ownership and establish GBR as the body responsible for passenger services and infrastructure at gov.uk/guidance/great-british-railways.
 
To exercise your data rights before the 13th of December, please contact GWR at:
 
CONTACT DETAILS: GWR-DPO@gwr.com
POSTAL ADDRESS: MH101, GWR, Milford House, Swindon, SN1 1HL
Registered office: First Greater Western Limited, Milford House, 1 Milford Street, Swindon, Wiltshire, SN1

 
The Coffee Shop forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western). The views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit https://www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site at admin@railcustomer.info if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules. Our full legal statment is at https://www.greatwesternrailway.info/legal.html

Although we are planning ahead, we don't know what the future will bring here in the Coffee Shop. We have domains "firstgreatwestern.info" for w-a-y back and also "greatwesternrailway.info"; we can also answer to "greatbritishrailways.info" too. For the future, information about Great Brisish Railways, by customers and for customers.
 
Current Running
GWR trains from JourneyCheck
 
 
Code Updated 11th January 2025