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Great Western Coffee Shop
Recent Public Posts - [guest]
Re: To 'stockpile food' is now our Government's official policy, apparently
In "The West - but NOT trains in the West" [379490/32456/31]
Posted by bobm at 20:32, 12th September 2026
Already liked by Chris from Nailsea
 
In my cupboard under the stairs I have a supply of candles, matches, two rechargeable torches, a power pack to charge a mobile phone and 24 bottles of Fullers beer.



Re: To 'stockpile food' is now our Government's official policy, apparently
In "The West - but NOT trains in the West" [379489/32456/31]
Posted by broadgage at 20:20, 12th September 2026
 
I used to have a very large 'Maglight' metal torch, which took at least three, possibly four, D cell batteries.

It was like lugging around a piece of scaffolding pole. 

Thank you for reminding me.
We still have a large Maglite in the cupboard.  Tried it a minute ago, and still lights up, but not used it for years!
I would urge examining the batteries, and replacing them if leaking, or date expired. Buy replacement batteries and store these in the packs, NOT in the torch.

Re: Derailment in Normandy
In "The Wider Picture Overseas" [379488/32488/52]
Posted by stuving at 20:07, 12th September 2026
 
TV news have now been allowed in to get close up pictures, and as you might expect that leading coach was really wrecked by its hurtling into the trees at 140 km/hr. That no-one was killed is almost a surprise. Investigation has, as you'd expect, been concentrating on that 5m length of rail found lying on the sleepers, and how it got on the track. It was near a level crossing on a small access road, which may be relevant.

But apparently that's the first fact to pin down - was it on the track? The driver reported seeing something, but not clearly, and he was badly shaken up just after - though again rather miraculously, with only a cracked rib. The obvious place to look is the recorded video from the camera looking forwards, but nothing is being said about that. So I'm wondering if this is another fairly-new French train with no forward-facing TV camera. The two units do appear to be three-car X76500 AGC, DMUs built from 2004 on.

Re: New Oxford - Bristol direct service, ongoing developments and discussion
In "Oxford, Didcot and Reading from the West" [379487/28355/22]
Posted by bobm at 19:39, 12th September 2026
 
The first round trip to Oxford (with the opening journey starting from Swindon due to engineering work) was also cancelled today. 

Re: Project Churchward - future regional fleet for the West, new rolling stock to replace DMUs
In "Looking forward - the next 2, 5, 10 and 20 years" [379486/27482/40]
Posted by REVUpminster at 18:52, 12th September 2026
 
Problem solved GWR will get 3 car 185s, only 20/23 years old, to replace the 150s and 158s

Well, by the time the new battery trains are stated to be fully in service on Trans-Pennine (2034), they'll be 28 years old. They also are incompatible with any other type (so if there's still any 175s left), there will be 4 parts of the  GW fleet incapable of working with each other (the remaining 150s/158s, the 165/6s, the 175s and these). They have fewer seats than a 2-car 165. All they need is a few years of lower maintenance as they are gradually replaced, and perhaps a couple stored in the open to ensure they are just in the right condition to fill the gap left by the 175s.... 
I did think of it in jest but the southwest could just have 175s (26) and 185s (29/51). Too tempting for the DfT. I would bet the first battery/electrics will end up in Reading and out of Maylebone to replace 165s and 166s just as the 769s were supposed to.

Gwr has 20 150s and 18 158s only 5 are 3 cars.

Re: New Oxford - Bristol direct service, ongoing developments and discussion
In "Oxford, Didcot and Reading from the West" [379485/28355/22]
Posted by TaplowGreen at 16:21, 12th September 2026
 
Cancelled today

16:24 Bristol Temple Meads to Oxford due 17:25
18:02 Oxford to Bristol Temple Meads due 19:20

Re: Lewes, East Sussex - derailment of train, 20 injured, 13 August 2026
In "The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom" [379484/32362/51]
Posted by grahame at 16:15, 12th September 2026
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0klpgrkyvro

Trains on a main rail route between the East Sussex coast and London will not run in off-peak hours for four weeks after track conditions were affected by the hot and dry weather over summer.

Southern Rail says that no trains will run directly between Eastbourne/Ore and London Victoria, via Lewes and Haywards Heath, between 09:00 BST and 16:15 on Mondays through to Friday.

Services from Eastbourne will run hourly to and from Haywards Heath, where passengers can change for onward connections to the capital, as well as Gatwick Airport.

One train will also operate hourly between Ore and Eastbourne in both directions.

Passengers have been told to allow more time for their journeys, although those travelling from Ore, Hastings and St Leonards Warrior Square can use Southeastern services at no extra cost.

The operator said that no trains in peak hours are affected, and while it apologised for the disruption, it added that the "temporary timetable will help provide a more reliable service and reduce last-minute changes".

The temporary timetable starts on Monday.


Re: Surbiton to Okehampton - with your car - 1960 to 1964
In "South Western services" [379483/32489/42]
Posted by grahame at 16:07, 12th September 2026
 
Somehow, somewhere the URL is getting mangled.

Sorry about that - delgnam - should work now.

Re: Surbiton to Okehampton - with your car - 1960 to 1964
In "South Western services" [379482/32489/42]
Posted by bobm at 15:59, 12th September 2026
 
Somehow, somewhere the URL is getting mangled.



West Wilts Model Railway Circle - founded 12 Sept 1967 [otd]
In "Railway History and related topics" [379481/32491/55]
Posted by grahame at 15:22, 12th September 2026
 
West Wilts Model Railway Circle - https://westwiltsmrc.club

We are an amateur model railway club, local to Trowbridge in Wiltshire, founded on the evening of 12th September 1967 by a group of railway modellers.

We meet Tuesday mornings between 9.30am and 11.30am and on Wednesdays evenings between 6.30pm and 9pm.

Other meeting times are arranged as and when required, whenever members wish to meet. We always have a cuppa and a biscuit available at our meetings, so pop in to say hello and join in!

At - Acre Short Ln, Steeple Ashton, Trowbridge BA14 6HD, UK, sadly not accessible from the 1:1 scale prototype, and I suspect pretty hard by bus too.

[otd] Newport Transporter Bridge opens 12th September 1906
In "Heritage railways, Railtours, buses, canals, steamships and other public transport based attractions" [379480/32490/47]
Posted by grahame at 15:15, 12th September 2026
 
From a mature page at https://www.newport.gov.uk/heritage/en/Transporter-Bridge/Transporter-Bridge.aspx (you san tell it's mature because it uses the term "will" for January 2025)

The remarkable Newport Transporter Bridge is one of only six operational transporter bridges left world wide from a total of twenty constructed.

The bridge opened in 1906 and has dominated the Newport skyline since.

A transporter bridge is basically a suspended ferry that can operate more efficiently than a conventional ferry.

A high level boom that allows ships to pass underneath is suspended from towers at each end.

The boom carries a rail track on which a moving carriage or ‘traveller’ runs.

A gondola or platform is suspended from the carriage and can be pulled from one side of the river to the other by means of a hauling cable.

On this day ...

The bridge cost £98,000 to complete and was opened on September 12 1906 by Lord Tredegar of Tredegar House.

Anyone have a status update now (September 2026)?

Surbiton to Okehampton - with your car - 1960 to 1964
In "South Western services" [379479/32489/42]
Posted by grahame at 15:02, 12th September 2026
 
BR

From https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-CoachingSetsOkehamptonCarCarrier.html - whole article worth a read!

Start ...

The daytime Surbiton to Okehampton Car Carrier service came about following a Southern Region managerial request for service improvements. The (then) Okehampton shed foreman, Arthur Westlake submitted the idea for a car-carrying service with passengers accompanying their cars on the same train; this plan included the efficient working of stock. Management adopted the plan with Arthur Westlake being paid two guineas for his idea.

Accordingly, the Okehampton Car Carrier service was introduced by British Railways on 18th June 1960 with the first train being hauled from Surbiton to Exeter by rebuilt Merchant Navy 35029 ‘Ellerman Lines’ with West Country 34023 ‘Blackmore Vale’ undertaking the return section to /from Okehampton. The passenger rolling stock was Green-liveried BR standard Mk 1 3-Cor set 564 (BSK + CK + BSK) attached to the rear of seven lined-maroon GUV vehicles (Down direction).

... and end

Following the 1962 Transport Act, disbandment of the British Transport Commission and Dr Beeching’s drive bring the railways back into profitability through his 1963 report ‘The Reshaping of British Railways’, there was an imperative to identify and develop profitable traffics with loss-making or only marginally profitable to either be reorganised with realistic pricing else withdrawn. Certainly, the Okehampton Car Carrier service was labour-intensive, its stock-utilisation low and was unlikely to fit in with plans for the ‘modern’ railway’s nationwide car-carrying services.

Accordingly, the last Surbiton to Okehampton Car Carrier service ran on 12th September 1964.

Re: Project Churchward - future regional fleet for the West, new rolling stock to replace DMUs
In "Looking forward - the next 2, 5, 10 and 20 years" [379478/27482/40]
Posted by eightonedee at 14:54, 12th September 2026
 
Problem solved GWR will get 3 car 185s, only 20/23 years old, to replace the 150s and 158s

Well, by the time the new battery trains are stated to be fully in service on Trans-Pennine (2034), they'll be 28 years old. They also are incompatible with any other type (so if there's still any 175s left), there will be 4 parts of the  GW fleet incapable of working with each other (the remaining 150s/158s, the 165/6s, the 175s and these). They have fewer seats than a 2-car 165. All they need is a few years of lower maintenance as they are gradually replaced, and perhaps a couple stored in the open to ensure they are just in the right condition to fill the gap left by the 175s.... 

Re: Claughton Brickworks Ropeway
In "Heritage railways, Railtours, buses, canals, steamships and other public transport based attractions" [379477/29468/47]
Posted by grahame at 14:49, 12th September 2026
 
Came again today as a reel - https://www.facebook.com/reel/1069452182137606 . Also reminded of the Newport (and other) Transporter Bridges - "On this day" reports the Newport Transporter Bridge opening 120 years ago today!

Re: Barnstaple to Exeter overcrowding, September 2026
In "Shorter journeys in Devon - Central, North and South" [379476/32479/24]
Posted by grahame at 13:54, 12th September 2026
 
It will also be interesting to see what happens to First Group-owned assets currently being used by GWR....don't they own some of the 803xxx IETs for example? I've been told that they're staying in the train plan after Dec 13th, by someone who possibly is high enough to have heard....

There's no such thing as an 803xxx IET.  If you mean 8003xx then, no, I don't think they own any of them.

It is incredibly opaque trying to work out who owns (as opposed to operates, or maintains) IET trains. A very old table https://www.railengineer.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Table-1-Hitachi-800-802-orders-V3-Avenir.pdf suggests ownership split between Eversholt, Angel Trains and Agility Trains.  WikiPedia (quotes below) - though it could be just loose words - suggests that Hitachi Rail will own new units to be delivered for open access enhancments in 2027; Hitachi Rail, as I understand it, are already a major player in Agility Trains.

Many other UK operators have bought Hitachi AT300 trains, including orders for Class 802 units by TransPennine Express (branded as Nova 1) and Hull Trains (branded as Paragon). East Midlands Railway have ordered Class 810 units (branded as Aurora), Lumo purchased Class 803 units and Avanti West Coast have ordered Class 805 and Class 807 units (branded as Evero)

In December 2024, Hitachi Rail stated in a press release that it had entered into a contract with FirstGroup and Angel Trains to lease 14 new five-car electric, battery-electric or bi-mode trains for First Rail's open-access operations, which will be manufactured at Newton Aycliffe, with their delivery expected to commence in late 2027. These trains will be used on a newly announced London-Carmarthen route, and to increase the number of carriages on the existing Lumo and Hull Trains services. The agreement includes an option to add 13 more trains to the order if more of First Rail's recently submitted open-access applications are successful.

First (group) did actually own a few of the HSTs - not sure which ones they were, whether they have been scrapped, sold, stored or are still owned and leased to Scotland, Nigeria or Mexico.

** image of that Rail Engineer table:


Re: Thames Valley infrastructure problems causing disruption elsewhere - 2026
In "Across the West" [379475/31163/26]
Posted by TaplowGreen at 13:19, 12th September 2026
 
So are all GWR/TfL systems/timetables fully updated?

National Rail's latest update (0701 this morning) states "Disruption is expected to continue until further notice".

Have all impacted customers been alerted as you suggest?

No, and no.  GWR and TfL systems may have been updated, but that doesn't / hasn't meant that all derivatives will have been updated and some third party sites, which people use, remain advertising (I have just looked) through trains from Cholsey to London, for example, for tomorrow.

Case Study:

The Interrail planning and ticket app is a necessary part of Interrail travel as you go through the trains on offer and add the one(s) you want to your ticket - it's not just a nice little planner.   And typically it's good real time - in Germany, where trains are notoriously late, it'll give you real time delays and platform changes; used it a number of times on one late running train to see if the connection will make to the next late running train, and also to find the platform information.  We made a 4 minute change in Frankfurt Hbf - complete with mobility device (used in racer mode) thanks to it.   

You CAN add trains that don't come up or differ manually to the app and your ticket if I was travelling Cholsey to Paddington tomorrow, though, and knowing what I known would add the falsely advertised train as far as Reading, then an IET diesel express into Paddington.



Perhaps best for GWR to have left the disruption map as was then?

Re: Barnstaple to Exeter overcrowding, September 2026
In "Shorter journeys in Devon - Central, North and South" [379474/32479/24]
Posted by IndustryInsider at 12:57, 12th September 2026
 
It will also be interesting to see what happens to First Group-owned assets currently being used by GWR....don't they own some of the 803xxx IETs for example? I've been told that they're staying in the train plan after Dec 13th, by someone who possibly is high enough to have heard....

There's no such thing as an 803xxx IET.  If you mean 8003xx then, no, I don't think they own any of them.

Re: Barnstaple to Exeter overcrowding, September 2026
In "Shorter journeys in Devon - Central, North and South" [379473/32479/24]
Posted by grahame at 12:44, 12th September 2026
 
A configuration of that nature has the potential to get very messy indeed, and this suggests "nationalisation" (in its true sense) is already unravelling.

In some ways, "nationalisation" could just be considered to be a change to one element of the system.  Freight operation, rolling stock provision and leasing, station buffets and I suspect advertising will remain private.  Fare systems such as regulated fares and Network Rail don't really change as they are nationalised anyway, and I suspect that cleaning and security contractors aren't being nationalised. On GWR, the cleaning contract is with the OCS group and is reported to run until June 2027, for example.

Re: Derailment in Normandy
In "The Wider Picture Overseas" [379472/32488/52]
Posted by stuving at 12:42, 12th September 2026
Already liked by IndustryInsider, GBM
 
This picture (credits Guillaume Saligot/AFP) shows, I think, the middle car of the leading unit. The rear car is hidden behind it, and the second unit is seen pushed off the track behind it. The leading car was torn off, presumably because its leading end was pushed off line and mat a lot of resistance, taking the shared Jocobs bogie with it.

Re: To 'stockpile food' is now our Government's official policy, apparently
In "The West - but NOT trains in the West" [379471/32456/31]
Posted by broadgage at 12:37, 12th September 2026
 
With torches from a previous era, a question is: 'Can I replace the bulb in this with a quality LED'? If the answer is 'Yes', this is rewarding (and even more so if a warm white LED is available, but perhaps that's just me.)


LEDs can be retrofitted to almost any torch. LED bulbs are available in both prefocus (pr 13.5) and miniature screw in (e 10) standard types are suitable for one cell to six cells. Specials are available for up to 30 volts, for lights that use cordless tool batteries, and for lights on electric cycles or mobility scooters.
Most are cool white, but warm white can be found.

Re: How well travelled are YOU?
In "Introductions and chat" [379470/32458/1]
Posted by grahame at 12:32, 12th September 2026
 
If you think they all head to Bath, try visiting Windsor sometime!

It sometimes feel that most of them visit Bath ... and Windsor and Stonehenge, many of them visiting two or even three of those in a day.  Away from the "Honey Pots" there are so many places worthy of so many more visitors from USA residents than they get.   

To be fair, they tend to be very pleasant in Windsor, like the Japanese. Probably pleased to be away from the madness of London for a few hours!

I have absolutely nothing against tourists - I married one ...

What I am pointing out is that a handful of attractions are overrun and many others which are also worthy of a visit get very few.  And we are usually delighted to see them.     The boot is potentially on the other foot at times, of course, when we visit places like Barcelona in our droves when (personally) I would much rather go to Nurau or Leon or Ribadero or Gurnika, and as a polite tourist I would often feel far more welcomed than in the masses.

Derailment in Normandy
In "The Wider Picture Overseas" [379469/32488/52]
Posted by stuving at 12:30, 12th September 2026
Already liked by IndustryInsider
 
Yesterday evening a TER from Rouen to Caen derailed at Cléon, just south of Rouen. Fortunately there were no deaths, but one of the many injuries was serious. This is from the BBC:
Passenger train derails in France leaving at least 44 injured

French police have sealed the crash area near the commune of Cléon
By Jaroslav Lukiv    11 September 2026

At least 44 people have been injured, including one seriously, after a passenger train derailed in northern France, local officials have said.

An 18-year-old woman was airlifted in critical condition by helicopter to hospital.

Transport Minister Philippe Tabarot said 180 passengers were on board the train that was operating between Rouen and Caen in Normandy.

He added that 140 firefighters and other emergency teams were being deployed to the scene of the crash on Friday evening near the commune of Cléon, just south of Rouen.

The cause of the derailment was not immediately known.

The local authorities activated a mass-casualty response plan after the crash shortly before 20:00 local time (18:00 GMT).

Photographs later emerged showing passengers leaving the crashed train, with French media reporting that three carriages overturned.

France's state-owned railway operator SNCF reported "significant disruptions" on its routes in the area. It said replacement buses would be provided.

The authorities advised the public to avoid the area.

TV pictures show two units (3- or 4- car) derailed, with the leading coach on its side in the woods beside the track.

Later SNCF stated that they had recovered a length of rail from the scene, within a built-up area. They believe that this was the cause and was put there in an act of vandalism (or worse).

Re: Project Churchward - future regional fleet for the West, new rolling stock to replace DMUs
In "Looking forward - the next 2, 5, 10 and 20 years" [379468/27482/40]
Posted by REVUpminster at 12:22, 12th September 2026
 
Nothing yet for GWR, but seems new train orders for UK have started again. 

I don't think there has been any non Open Access orders since 2019 (except the 10 extra Elizabeth line trains and the 10 CAF class 387s for LNER)

29 x 5car trains for Transpennine have just been announced (but not until 2034) from Alstom at Derby

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd94y7d7qyzo




Do you mean class 897? The 387s (made by Bombardier) are in service with GWR and parts of GTR.

Problem solved GWR will get 3 car 185s, only 20/23 years old, to replace the 150s and 158s. And no nasty infrastucture costs for battery/electrics.

Re: To 'stockpile food' is now our Government's official policy, apparently
In "The West - but NOT trains in the West" [379467/32456/31]
Posted by TaplowGreen at 11:46, 12th September 2026
 
That was my thoughts, what do we use D cells for now?
OS in post CFN.

D cells are less used than in years gone by, but have the merit of costing about twice as much as AA cells but giving from 6 to 10 times the capacity.
Mainly used in larger torches and lanterns. Four D cells in a torch with a 700 ma bulb will run for about 12 hours, with AA cells under 2 hours.

D cells can also be used, with an adaptor, in railway type Bardic lamps, now that the correct AD 28 batteries are extinct.

Could these batteries have the potential to be repurposed to  provide heating for underwear in exceptionally cold conditions (be it short or long?)

Re: Barnstaple to Exeter overcrowding, September 2026
In "Shorter journeys in Devon - Central, North and South" [379466/32479/24]
Posted by TaplowGreen at 11:43, 12th September 2026
 
It will also be interesting to see what happens to First Group-owned assets currently being used by GWR....don't they own some of the 803xxx IETs for example? I've been told that they're staying in the train plan after Dec 13th, by someone who possibly is high enough to have heard....

First Group becomes a RoSCo ... supplying to the DfT's companies.  The old rule about not being both the operator and the owner of the stock (for the most part) goes away when the company is no longer the operator, and First Group open access operators could take a commercial decision to have a portfolio of rolling stock in excess of their needs and hire the rest out to the HMG operators.

A configuration of that nature has the potential to get very messy indeed, and this suggests "nationalisation" (in its true sense) is already unravelling.

Is my life too mundane? Should I learn these conversations before my next trip?
In "Introductions and chat" [379465/32487/1]
Posted by grahame at 11:02, 12th September 2026
 
My social media feed has come to the view that I need to learn English and is giving me teaching examples in a whole lot of what I would describe as unusual and tense situations.  It makes me wonder if my life is rather too boring and mundane and whether I should solicit more excitement.

Which of the sample conversations would YOU find useful in [a new language]



https://www.facebook.com/reel/1695317711677128

A girl realizes she boarded the wrong train and urgently asks the driver to stop. The driver explains that trains cannot stop outside stations except in serious emergencies. Despite her pleading, he firmly insists she must wait until the next station. 

https://www.facebook.com/reel/28117763127915670

The wife, angry and suspicious, demands to know who the other woman is. The husband, nervous and defensive, insists she is just an important client. Furious, the wife accuses him of cheating and demands the truth. Shocked and irritated, the husband denies it, saying they are discussing a business deal. Hurt and accusatory, the wife asks why he didn’t mention the meeting. Cold and dismissive, the husband replies he doesn’t have to explain every work meeting. Angry and convinced, the wife insists he is lying. Explosive and fed up, the husband shouts that she ruined everything and orders her to leave. This scene highlights mistrust, jealousy, and the clash between personal emotions and professional boundaries. 

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1066494169472405

Two girls notice something unusual near the water. Shocked, one thinks it might be a body, while the other, alarmed, warns her not to get closer. Uncertain, the first suggests it could be a mannequin or trash, but serious, the second insists they must call the police. Nervous, the first struggles to find her phone, while urgent, the second dials emergency services. Worried, the first wonders if they should check for breathing, but firm, the second tells her not to touch anything and wait for the police. This scene highlights fear, responsibility, and quick decision‑making in a tense situation.
 
https://www.facebook.com/reel/1050327304469016

A firm museum guard stops a young man from entering after visiting hours. Worried, the man explains he dropped his wallet inside, containing cash, credit cards, and ID. Serious, the guard insists entry after closing is forbidden. Pleading, the man begs for just a minute to recover his belongings. Considering the situation, the guard agrees to accompany him inside for a quick look. Relieved, the man thanks him, saying he just saved his life. This scene highlights rules, urgency, and compassion. 

https://www.facebook.com/reel/2602376973550988

A frustrated customer complains to the waiter after waiting more than thirty minutes for food. She points out that another table was served earlier, which makes her angry. The waiter apologizes and explains that the other dish required less preparation time, but the customer insists the service is unacceptable. Finally, she demands to see the manager, and the waiter respectfully agrees. This scene highlights frustration, apology, and escalation in customer service. 

https://www.facebook.com/reel/4302126330039663

A husband and wife are preparing for a trip. The husband asks if everything is packed, but the wife realizes the blue bag with swimsuits is missing. He admits he didn’t load it, and she calmly suggests they get it now. The dialogue shows curiosity, worry, frustration, and calmness. 

https://www.facebook.com/reel/4023647764609125

A man is accidentally sprayed with pepper spray by a woman who thought he was trying to steal her bag. The man explains he only wanted directions, and the woman apologizes, offering to help him wash his face. The dialogue shows pain, misunderstanding, regret, and relief.

More reliable than a 175....
In "The Lighter Side" [379464/32486/30]
Posted by old original at 10:51, 12th September 2026
Already liked by GBM, rogerw
 
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/19HAabutjM/

Re: Barnstaple to Exeter overcrowding, September 2026
In "Shorter journeys in Devon - Central, North and South" [379462/32479/24]
Posted by John D at 10:31, 12th September 2026
Already liked by grahame
 
It will also be interesting to see what happens to First Group-owned assets currently being used by GWR....don't they own some of the 803xxx IETs for example? I've been told that they're staying in the train plan after Dec 13th, by someone who possibly is high enough to have heard....

Presumably they will be able to lease them out at very high rates to the new operator.   Train leasing where there is no alternative fleet is very lucrative.   Confirmed by some of the very expensive lease extensions that have happened in recent years.    

It's not a competitive market, it's take it (the high price) or go without, and without a decent pool of universal alternatives, pay up seems to be DfT default short term option.

Re: Barnstaple to Exeter overcrowding, September 2026
In "Shorter journeys in Devon - Central, North and South" [379461/32479/24]
Posted by grahame at 10:30, 12th September 2026
 
It will also be interesting to see what happens to First Group-owned assets currently being used by GWR....don't they own some of the 803xxx IETs for example? I've been told that they're staying in the train plan after Dec 13th, by someone who possibly is high enough to have heard....

First Group becomes a RoSCo ... supplying to the DfT's companies.  The old rule about not being both the operator and the owner of the stock (for the most part) goes away when the company is no longer the operator, and First Group open access operators could take a commercial decision to have a portfolio of rolling stock in excess of their needs and hire the rest out to the HMG operators.

 
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