Ah, OK, thanks. That explains the absence. I wasn't disappointed not to see Minør; foolishly I thought it would make for a more challenging 'Where was Red Squirrel'!

 

And demonstrate to the DfT that they won't lose a shed load of income as a result.

And fend off the press when they find the fares that will go up significantly as a result.

And... 

 
Can't get that link to work Mark.

 

Getting complicated


 
-

 

21:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:05
21:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 05:05 will be cancelled.
This is due to heavy rain flooding the railway.

23:50 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54
23:50 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54 will be cancelled.
This is due to heavy rain flooding the railway.

 
13:42 Swindon to Weymouth due 15:57

13:42 Swindon to Weymouth due 15:57 will be started from Westbury and terminated at Yeovil Pen Mill.
It will no longer call at Swindon, Chippenham, Melksham, Trowbridge, Thornford, Yetminster, Chetnole, Maiden Newton, Dorchester West, Upwey and Weymouth.

This is due to heavy rain flooding the railway.

 

The second link worked for me - including a lesson in the correct pronunciation. 

The other engine is pictured there:



CfN. 

 
Further changes:

 
Now reporting that all trains between Plymouth/Cornwall to London are cancelled

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/trains-plymouth-cornwall-london-cancelled-9740819?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR0l7rev06oErhJt_UhQ0Kn-CZzMUfqwGwKvX58hM0aKKtAU4aHqUvFOtxc_aem_wH6PWkvCEX59WFuDKklasw#Echobox=1732458165

 
One of the fascinating things we have available these days which we did not have when the fares were set is computing power to allow much more complex dynamic calculation - for the calculations to be more complex but the algorithms simple.

Let's start with routing for walk-up tickets:
1. The shortest route is always allowed. And It is the basis for fare calculation.
2. Direct (through) services are always allowed
3. When you walk up the train combination that will get you there earliest is always allowed.

If it does not add more than 10% to the distance, this route too is treated as the shortest route
If you are following a route according to 1, break of journey is allowed, otherwise not.

Pricing. For an anytime single ticket

1. Each station to station leg has a price based on the distance between stations - in other  word "x pence per mile".  However, there may be a quality of service and infrastructure factor applied to that, somewhere (bar exceptional circumstances) between 0.8 and 1.2. A "for instance" might be that the Pilning to Severn Tunnel Junction factor is 1.2 and looking at the other end of the scale, some northern legs already mentioned (Hammerton to Cattal) might come in at 0.8.

2. Add a fixed fee - call in "station use" if you like - of "y pence"

3. Add up the grand total and it's a base fare of "z".

4. Actual fare charged is the full base fare up to amount "a", then discounted by 20% up to amount "b" and discounted by 40% in excess of that.  Sort od inverse way that taxation works.

You ARE allowed to chose your own "via"stations in which case it's price that way

For a return ticket - work out the distance in just the same way - except it's double.  So when you come to step 4, a return ticket will be cheaper than 2 singles because of the discount levels.   Return ticket validity based on distance - valid for out and back journeys completed within 50 hours.

First Class, plus 40%

Off Peak - valid for travel except at any time 07:30 to 09:00 and journeys starting between 16:30 to 19:00 on Monday to Friday - minus 20%. 

Season tickets - based on a fare cap of 7.5 single journeys per week; Rangers and rovers based on a fare cap within the areas covered. 

All I need to do now is to define the factors and write a script to work out your fare.

 

Prior to the introduction of "Savers", and at least as late as 1982, the general offering seemed to be Standard Single / Return, Monthly Return, Weekend Return and Day Return, in decreasing order of price per mile.

The day return didn't have a distance cap, either. Certainly, Newport-Newcastle was available in Feb 1982 (£27).

I have a leaflet for an early form of Groupsave, back in 1977. The quoted fare from Newport to Newcastle (available Saturdays only)  was £6.84 

 

Well - that did something  . ...



200 = good request
302 = redirection
403 = forbidden
404 = page not found (hardly any of those)

We do appear (last 24 hours) to have had an over-enthusiastic search engine - it has made 7,000 requests since 03:30 this morning and I have asked it to cut the rate.  I have also asked a visitor from Tehran who's looking at ticket flows every 2 seconds and has called up 1000 so far to desist! We'll see how it goes

 
Moved to look up how TfL handles edge cases, I found this from 2017:

https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-1798-1718

The FOI return has info on the grace periods for touch in / out allowed at the start / end of peak segments. How do the national rail gatelines handle the boundaries of peak travel times, does anyone know? This is presumably going to be further complicated by easements on individual journeys though.

Mark

 

Good. Sorta. I suspect the 12:37 from Westbury will leave before the 11:00 from Weymouth arrives, mind.  The whole solution would seem to be to have more available train (drivers and TMs) and not have to employ so many bus (drivers). Oh - and it would be just one train and not two buses!

 

This chimes with an account I read from a couple of young residents of Nottingham who travelled to Leicester on a (rail-related) explore,  day returns from Victoria to Loughborough and Loughborough to Leicester making the excursion rather more affordable than it would otherwise have been.

Mark

 

And of course, having replies turned off means that GWR don't have a public record of the justifiable complaints about the woeful service they provide far too often. Today is another example of the all too regular Sunday meltdown due to GWR's inaction in addressing crew shortages. Handily today though GWR can somewhat use the weather excuse to hide behind.

 
The current confused system of "market-based" fares arrived in the 1970's when BR started to try to fill off-peak capacity. Prior to that (and also subsequently for many years) the main offer on tickets was a normal or full fare ticket, or a cheap day return. I would hazard a guess that the single fare was around half the full return fare (please correct me if this was not so). BR did in fact taper longer distance fares to make them realistic (or affordable!). How this was done may be lost in the mists of time. Now all these fares had historic origins but very likely had some basis in being distance based.

If someone was bold enough there could be some merit in using an older BR fares manual as a template to start introducing a more logical system. Unlikely to happen since BR is still regarded as bad in many official eyes and of course, modern "marketing" is an industry in itself to create a desirable and also "profitable" product.

Split ticketing is really nothing new either. I imagine many may remember having to purchase a series of cheap day returns at each of the relevant ticket offices. This was in order to make an extended day trip more affordable since cheap day returns were generally only available for up to 50 miles and for specific routes only.       

 

How would you classify a journey from PNZ to PAD ?  EXD roughly halfway, with fast services between PAD and EXD, but the same service takes almost one third longer between EXD and PNZ.

 
Hi Tim

My source is Wikipedia - there's quite a good concise history of the Reykjavik harbour railway here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Iceland) and a picture of the second locomotive on the page relating to the museum where it is kept here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81rb%C3%A6jarsafn). That second link may not work as it includes an "a" and "e" run together - and don't ask me how the museum's name is pronounced. If it doesn't, there's a link in the other entry.

It's probably quite sensible not to keep Minor outside at Reykjavik during the Icelandic winter. I had three winter trips there between 2011 and 2013 and never saw it in situ.

 

Straightaway we have, as I indicated, one potential variation which might produce a better result; Swindon to Paddington is obviously a fast 'InterCity' route whilst Scarborough (SCA)<>Goole (GOO) quite clearly isn't. So possibly look at a mathematical combination of distance and average speed over the route (or journey) to set fares e.g. SCA to York (YRK) via Malton (MLT) is only operated by TPE and takes c.50 minutes to cover the 42 miles while the Northern service via Kingston-upon-Hull (HUL) is roughly 105 miles / 100 minutes, giving 0.84 & 1.05 miles/minute (mpm) respectively. SWI to PAD is 77 miles in 51>61 minutes at 1.26>1.51mpm. Closer to home one can travel the 28 miles between EXD & PGN with either GWR (c.65 mins) or XC (c.41 mins) giving values of 0.43 & 0.68 respectively. For a local comparison EXD to BNP throws up a 'standard' value of 0.5mpm although early morning trains come in at closer to 0.60mpm. Better minds than mine might be able say whether this type of approach would be at all workable. 

 
Given the level of service GWR are currently delivering, the suggestion of any increase in fares (which would seem inevitable, and in some cases dramatic given the formula being suggested) seems truly bizarre.

 

Do you have any further information about this? I searched online but failed to find anything.

 
I see at least two arguments a simple mileage based fare.
Firstly, local commuting should arguably be subsidised out of public funds as it is a "public good" The vast numbers of workers in London and other large cities cant all drive to work as there is not the road capacity or parking spaces. There is not sufficient housing available near enough for more than a small minority to walk or cycle to work.
Therefore train travel from say Reading to Paddington needs subsidy.
Travel from Taunton to Paddington is arguably less deserving of subsidy, living in Taunton and working in central London is a lifestyle choice, for which the user must expect to pay. Travel between Reading and London is NOT a lifestyle choice, London employers need workers, and these workers need affordable public transport from Reading, and other nearby places.

There is also a second argument, which SOMEWHAT contradicts the first one.
Running a train between London and say Penzance costs of certain sum. The two main factors to consider, are providing enough capacity to avoid standing/overcrowding on the inner part of the route to say Taunton, and also providing a reasonable service to Penzance.
Having incurred the largely fixed costs PER TRAIN it could be argued that travel to Penzance should cost no more than to Plymouth. It costs a certain amount to run enough trains, so does it really much matter how far a passenger travels?

I therefore doubt that a mileage based system would work well, keep the present system but look again at any fares that appear extremely cheap or expensive, and consider alterations unless some good reason can be found to retain apparently odd fares.

 

Gonna be one of those days on which we look back and take a history from one of the data logging sites to see what actually happened.  What a fine way (not) to run a railway.

I caught the 08:02 from Melksham yesterday, changed at Chippenham and on to Bristol.  Back from Bristol mid-afternoon; save myself a very long wait at Chippenham or Trowbridge by changing to the bus at Bath, which also comes closer to home though not - after the 15:15 bus from Bath - to the stop on the pavement outside the house next to us.

Melksham Station - unmanned
Train - ticket checked by train manager
Chippenham - 2 dispatch staff + 2 on the gateline that I could see
On train - announcement of refreshments (and I could have done with a coffee) but no trolley or staff appeared
Bristol Temple Meads - Only one gateline open with around 4 staff on it.
---- return journey
Bristol - Only one gateline open with around 4 staff on it
Caught train to Bath arrived ex Weston and 4 passenger facing staff (2 x managers + 2 x ?) boarded
Bath Spa - at least 2 dispatch staff plus at least 3 on the gateline

Are there enough staff around, but perhaps not doing the right jobs?

 
Sunday November 24

 
14:22 Frome to Swindon due 15:34
14:22 Frome to Swindon due 15:34 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

15:44 Swindon to Frome due 16:38
15:44 Swindon to Frome due 16:38 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

 
Report from Polesworths from the Birmingham Mail

 
'tis the season for local papers to be misreporting on the quietest station in their areas ...

From Somerset Live ...


... I know what they mean, but there is no turnstile nor gateline at Freshford

And from The Scotsman


According to the ORR figures, that's for journeys starting or ending there.

Mind you, I'm a right one to criticise - those are the sort of mistakes in reporting any of us might make!

 
From The Scotsman under the title "Passengers on 'Harry Potter' Jacobite steam train 'dreaded' return journey" - it reads as if customer service has fallen by the wayside