Closed, 4th January 1971. Reopened by the West Somerset Railway as a tourist attarction, and now open to main line charters too - the West Somerset Railway that serves Williton (pop 3000), Watchet (5000) and Minehead (11000) is a prime candidate for restoration as a regular transport link from these hard-to-access communities in to Taunton.


Potential Commuter Train?


Butlins brings a LOT of people to Minehead


Minehead Town Centre - a bustling place!

Having been to Minehead yesterday and travelled along the West Somerset Railway, I wondered what we had here.  And what I have found is a need for aknowledgable update.  Can anyone fill me in on the various ideas that look like they might be practical to use this line as a regular public transport link?

 
I'd say something along the line of a summer 'butlins express' similar to last year (with more appropriate timings than last year!) Perhaps also more sensibly priced as the high fare often put people off going on it (inc me!) Sadly it isn't being run this year, although perhaps FGW could do something on summer Saturdays? (Paddington - Reading - Didcot - Swindon - Chippenham (with connecting train from Melksham of course ) - Bath - Keynsham - Bristol TM - Nailsea - Yatton - Worle - Taunton (pick up only) and MINEHEAD.)

Perhaps two round trips - 0915 and 1315 from Paddington?

Last years 'Butlins Express' operated by Victa Westlink



Only problem was that a number of the runs ran as empty trains

 
The problem with the Butlins Express was the timings didn't allow day trippers to the West Somerset Rly and Minehead. The WSR/Butlins haven't been able to find an operator willing to support them this year, following Victa-Westlink's demise.

I believe the WSR's 5 yr plan is considering a diesel shuttle from BL to Taunton, but the obstacles in the privatised railway are considerable (though NYMR have overcome them).  That will appeal to those visiting the railway, but to provide an affordable option for day trippers to Minehead the minimum needed is a DMU service from Bristol to Minehead, say in the 6 weeks in the summer when commuter traffic is lighter. However, unlike yesterday, when FGW staff gave their time for free, running a service down to Minehead and then waiting several hours before the return would be costly in terms of unproductive staff time.

Given Butlins were interested in a service leaving Minehead late morning and arriving back late afternoon, maybe two return trips a day would meet this requirement and that of day trippers. Of course, these services will take paths on the WSR that will be very valuable in the peak for them, so they will need to consider the impact of losing those for the bread and butter customers wanting a trip behind a steam train.

The other consideration is that the line is limited to 25mph. This is fine for an excursion like yesterday, but does make the journey a bit long for the normal daytrip traffic that would be needed to make a service viable. I understand the WSR has no aspiration to increase this due to the significant costs involve once you go above that limit.
 

 
Steam-powered summer specials at West Somerset Railway are under threat after problems with tracks and trains have thrown one of the West's biggest tourist attractions into crisis just before the school holidays.

Only one of the railway's four steam locomotives is in operation after a severe fault on the track damaged wheels of other engines, making them unsafe for passengers. Sources close to the railway say maintenance work carried out free of charge by Network Rail as a training exercise is at the root of the problems - a claim West Somerset Railway manager Paul Conibeare denies.

He said: "The Network Rail train was used to grind the top of the tracks and did not cause this. What we have found on some stretches is an unusual lipping on the side of some of the tracks. When trains travel over tracks, over time some lipping will appear but this is something we haven't encountered before so it has been a learning curve for us."

Maintenance teams are now working through the night to grind down the rails by hand as time is running out before thousands of holiday makers arrive hoping to hop on board one of the iconic steam trains. The extra lipping of the tracks has damaged the trains' wheel flanges and tyres and the railway had no option but to withdraw the engines as the fault could cause engines to derail.

Mr Conibeare said: "Safety is paramount to us which is why we are working hard to sort these problems out."

Diesel trains will be used to substitute steam and ensure ordinary services are not interrupted but some people believe trade will still be hit when disappointed passengers hoping for steam decide to spend their money elsewhere.

The railway's annual family fun days are due to be held on the weekend of July 5 and 6 and although fears have been raised that the technical problems could put the event in jeopardy, Mr Conibeare says it will go ahead as normal.

The railway is running one steam train and one diesel engine to keep to its published timetables. See west-somerset-railway.co.uk for more information.

Full article in Western Daily Press: see
http://www.westpress.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=145786&command=displayContent&sourceNode=231644&home=yes&more_nodeId1=145795&contentPK=20921924

 
"A 62-year-old steam engine which was rescued from a scrap yard has been restored and will take to the rails again in Somerset. The locomotive was built in 1946 but spent 22 years in the scrap yard in south Wales until her rescue in 1996.

The engine, named "Braunton", has been rebuilt using the parts of 13 other scrapped locomotives.

The engine will haul a special fund-raising train for the West Somerset Steam Railway Trust's heritage carriages project on Wednesday, 24 September.

The project aims to restore original Great Western Railway 1930s coaches for use on the WSR."

For full details, see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/7627940.stm

 
As part of the GWR 175 celebrations, this years Mixed Traction Weekend is themed 'GWR 175 - Diesels in the West'.

It will feature the WSR home based Hydraulic fleet as well as three guest engines from other Railways.

Highlights
 

• A feast of Maybach music - with ^Western^, ^Warship^, ^Hymek^ & Class 14 locomotives in action
• THREE ^guest^ locomotives - ^Western^ No D1062 ^Western Courier^; ^Warship^ No D821 ^Greyhound^ & Class 14 No D9520
• The return of Class 52 ^Western^ No D1010 Western Campaigner
• Intensive timetable
• Refreshments including Hot Food outlets at principal stations
• Museums, model railways, gift shops, refreshments
• Shunting demonstration at Dunster
• DMU Shuttle service from Minehead towards Blue Anchor on all three days
• Diesel & Electric Preservation Group Heritage Diesel Visitor Centre, Depot & Yard at Williton open for inspection
• Free bus link between Taunton & Bishops Lydeard
• Special souvenir programme
• Day & Weekend rover tickets - cheaper if booked in advance thereby avoiding ticket office queues on the day

More information from the West Somerset Railway website.



Edit note: added to calendar. Chris.

 
Ahh there are some advantages to having a route starting at ta4-3_ goiNg threw ta4-4_,ta23-0_ and ta24-6_ :-) Camera in van!

 
A steam gala celebrating the 175th anniversary of the Great Western Railway.

The LNER interloper Tornado is expected to appear!

Further details from the West Somerset Railway website.

 
It is confirmed that 60163 Tornado will be returning to the West Somerset Railway on 13-17th September following the repairs to her boiler.

Further information and ticket details can be found on the West Somerset Railway website.

 
I will be off to the WSR on Monday 13th September for a ride behind Britain's newest kettle, so if anyone wants to join me then let me know here and/or by PM.

Tornado will be used for two return trips on the normal timetable, so there is no need to book in advance. Adult Day Rover tickets are ^14.80.

I plan to phot at Bishops Lydeard for Tornado's departure at 1140 then take the 'normal' steam service from Bishops Lydeard to Watchet at 1230, break there for photting opportunites of Tornado on her way back up to Bishops Lydeard and then a spot of lunch. Thence to Minehead by 'normal' steam again then return on Tornado at 1735.

....and to think I prefer Diesel-Hydraulics! 

 

There's no accounting for taste. 

However, I'm rather inclined to offer to join you for that day out, bignosemac!  In the past, I've missed travelling behind Tornado, due to certain rather unfortunate circumstances, so I'd like to try and catch her this time!

CfN. 

 
Hi - I'll be there as long as I can get some time out of the office....

Cheers


Robert

 
Time off sorted - will definitely be there...

 
Well, that's three of us. Shame there's no GroupSave on the WSR.

As I said upthread, anyone else is more than welcome. I'll be catching the 0855 out of Temple Meads, which should be a bit of loco-hauled Mk II....

 
As much as I would like to see that foreigner running on GW metals I don't think I can get down there so I will just have to make do with seeing a storm in mid Hants on Tuesday http://www.watercressline.co.uk/Home (warning sound a little loud)

 

 
Bumping this thread to see if any other Coffee Shop member would care to join us on this jolly.

You need to be at Taunton station for 1030ish for the bus to Bishops Lydeard at 1047. And the day out as I've planned will get us back to Taunton station at 1914.

If the full day out is not an option then there are other opportunities for a ride behind Tornado for a half-day out. PM me and I can give you details.

bignosemac 

 
I would love to but need to be at work on the 13th :-(

 
Sorry to learn that you can't join us, Jo: I'll take a few photos, and post them here, to show you what you'll have missed! 

 
Thank you.. Hopefully there will be a similar thing but at a weekend soon...

 
Ill be driving through Taunton in the evening if that is any consolation 

 
I'll give you a suitable wave, then! 

 
From the Bridgwater Mercury:

 
An update, from the WSR website:

 
Well worth going to Beer Festival It's excellent you can watch them turning locos with a pint in your hand.

Been a couple of times on Hertfordshire through trains, first class, breakfast on way down, straight into the beer festival and dinner on way back. Probably beats my favourite ICE3 although not for speed.

 
A grand day out! Tornado was in fine fettle. Scared the bejaysus out of Jess when she was shunting at Bishops Lydeard. Even left me with a ringing in the ears. And I thought Valenta engined HSTs were loud.....

Pictures to follow over the next day or two.....

 
Some pictures of 60163 Tornado at Bishops Lydeard along with a few others from the day out.









D1010 Western Campaigner at Williton.


The West Somerset Railway crosses the trackbed of the West Somerset Mineral Railway near Watchet.


Walking from Watchet to Washford along the former West Somerset Mineral Railway trackbed.


BR(W) 5101 Class 2-6-2T 'Large Prairie' no. 4160 running round at Minehead.


GWR Castle Class 4-6-0 no. 5029 Nunney Castle on shed at Minehead.


GWR 5100 Class 2-6-2T 'Large Prairie' no. 5553 on the turntable at Minehead.


Sunset and 'Right-Away' at Stogumber.


Can we have more stations as immaculately turned out as this on the national network please?

 
My own 'first impressions' of Tornado:

Is that her, in the distance?


Can't see a bluddy thing, for all that steam!


Ah ... that's better!


My thanks to members bignosemac and robert.nash for a Grand Day Out! 

 
i saw it at work in watchet.... if i knew you were about i would have said hello

 
Time for me to shamelessly drop in a photo of the beast, which was taken neither recently nor (obviously!) at the WSR. Still the best kettle out there by an absolute country mile though!

 
well as a few other people seem to have seen it on the wsr in the past week....... 

 
From the BBC:

 
the a39 is a total nightmare! hopefully the wsr will get more contracts like this

 
Im surprised this subject hasn't come up on here yet.

Twin Engined diesel-hydraulic to the seaside anyone?
 

http://www.west-somerset-railway.co.uk/FGW.html

 
Actually it has ... but it's a bit hard to know which board to put it in.  It got put into "diary" as it's a specific dated event ...

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=8128.0

 

Oy! Stop pinching my jokes!!!

 

Haha, didn't realise you were on here as well!

 



_{Edit note: Gentle adjustment of quote marks - just to make the joke clear!  Chris.}

 
From the BBC:

 
i was going to criticize this, until i read the part about the bus from dunster station to the castle  .... its a-bit of a trek !

the a39 is a nightmare its a shame that the wsr can't also offer a faster service between the steam service

 
It's a shame they can't offer a service from Taunton station. 

 
Indeed - that Minehead bay platform at Taunton is still there (with a bit of digging out, obviously!): 

 
well there is the triangle at norton fitzwarren

 

Ting ting    sorry could not resist

Has WSR got any asperations to run to a mainline station or is it in the too difficult for NR to deal with folder

 
My understanding is that it's in the West Somerset Railway's "it's too expensive to deal with Network Rail on this one" folder ... 

 

Living in Taunton, as I did until my mid twenties, there were regular stories in the Somerset County Gazette about WSR's aspirations to run regular scheduled services to/from Taunton station. Hardly a year passed without some story about WSR's latest plans to do so. Usually backed by various traffic studies showing that the market was there.

When the line to Minehead was re-opened by the WSR in the mid to late 1970s they initially faced objections running into Taunton not from BR but from the local bus operator, Western National.

Today, the major stumbling block does indeed appear to be Network Rail.

 
at some point wasn't the wsr offered that bay platform

 
Yes I remember the stories and the big plans to run services to Taunton hence the big campaign to get the line better connected to the mainline network with the signalling upgraded. It's just a great shame that it is only used for occasional charters and trains taking stone to bolster Minehead's sea defences.

As someone who lives in Bath I would visit Minehead a lot more than I do if there was a connection at Taunton onto the WSR that isn't a bus. Driving from Bath to Taunton is quite a journey even though it isn't that far as the crow flies as its a slow old route. Going M4/M5 really is going the long way round.

 
the only thing i will say is that as things stand at the moment, you can get a bus direct from platform 2 and can get threw tickets which are great value, and that if services did run the journey time with  line speeds as they are now  would probably be longer than the bus

 

ISTR a lot of the early opposition to trains running back into Taunton was from the NUR who were trying to protect the bus drivers jobs.

If the WSR were to run through to Taunton,  I believe  this would require an additional 'train set' to maintain their current timetable. 

Access to the bays pictured would involve a substantial alteration to the signalling system.  Access to the down side bay is curently possible via the relief line. Unfortunately it is not possible to run round which would limit the stock to be used (I believe 'Autocoach' working is not permitted on NR infrastructure!)

All in all, a variety of reasons apart from cost and each taken in isolation might not be a problem.  However when added together then the sums probably dont stack up.

Extension of the Bristol stoppers to Bishops Lydeard/ Norton Fitzwarren would seem to be the way forward.

 

Would it not be possible for the WSR to run a track alongside the current running line into the bays pictured.  AIUI it used to be four tracked all the way to the junction and it looks like there is sufficient space to lay an extra track.

This would not require any extra signalling and run independent of the current railway.  I noticed when they replaced the level crossing at Norton Fitzwarren with a bridge they seem to have left room for an extra track.

 
Still wouldn't solve the run-round problem, leaving only WSRs heritage DMUs able to run into Taunton.

 

This is where the Chinnor & Princess Risborough Railway are having problems running from Tame Jcn to PR station and that only runs alongside an NR operational "siding."  NR would I suspect require a fence (post and wire would do) to prevent passengers in the event of evacuation or WSR track / ops staff getting onto its operational lines the WSR track / ops could hold NR track competencies but that would need them being part of the Sentinel scheme, The Bunk at Cholsey achieved it but their parallel running is only a few meters

 
TWERPs (Tunbridge wells and Eridge Railway) has just reopened into Eridge station which has parallel running with network rail and no fence.

 

There are two platform in the bay and there seems to be enough room leading up to have two tracks.  You could have a run round loop within the platform area.

However I suspect one of the major problems is that signalling cable etx are currently located in the trackbed where the extra track could run.  This would be quite expensive to relocate.

 
or just use the dmu.......

 
Top and Tail 31's anyone...

It's been done before!

 
  reminds me of another plan down in the southwest

 
Fgw will be providing a unit on saturday and sunday to run between taunton and bishops lydeard 

http://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/NEWS-INFO.htm

 
From thisisthewestcountry:


From thisissomerset:

 
Gloucester? Shurely shum mishtake?......:-)

 
Jammy git!

Us mere mortals have to pay upwards of ^400 for a footplate experience on the WSR. 

 

Agree that both through services and faster would be an improvement.
Through services are run from time to time, but not regularly.
A somwhat faster service could be offered by omitting the intermediate stops, but the main problem is the 25 MPH line speed.
Wonder if this could be increased ? I believe that the Great Central Railway at Loughborough has a line speed of 40 MPH, and I believe that much of the "Minehead branch" was 45 MPH in BR days.

 
The issue of a higher-then-25mph linespeed is a complicated one - most (if not all) heritage lines operate under light railway legislation. This is considerably less burdensome and bureaucratic than the mainline system, but comes with certain limitations, notably a maximum 25 mph speed in normal service.

My knowledge may be out of date, but (at least as I understood it at the time) the GCR was only authorized to operate at maximum speeds of up to 60 mph under certain, very controlled, conditions, and certainly not in normal service.

 
I believe that the Watercress Line can operate up 45mph for locomotive testing when it is not open to the public

 

The GCR can only run at high speed when closed to teh public and subject to a prior track inspection and only one train running IIUIC

 
A timetable has been published for this according to a email i received.

http://www.west-somerset-railway.co.uk/shopimages/sections/extras/MTW%20Shuttle%20Times%20-%2011th%20and%2012th%20June.pdf

fare is ^5 which is payable on the train. I am planning on coming down for this hopefully so i may see some of you there

 
well i have a work trial tomorrow so if i get it i will be going

 
From the Somerset County Gazette:

 
From thisisthewestcountry:

 
From the Somerset County Gazette:

 
From This is the West Country:

 
Problems for their gala today after a car leaves the road and ends up close to the line at Norton Fitzwarren.

Somerset County Gazette

 
A video news report, from ITV News:

 
From This Is The West Country:

 
Surely a Summer service connecting from Paddington or even XC services direct to Minehead could be good for all those going to Butlins. Seeing the amount of luggage getting off trains at Taunton and then transferring to a packed bus would be a winner. Through ticketing and track access charges for the 'interlopers' would surely be a benefit to both The West Somerset AND  FGW andXC.

Certainly a similar thing to what happens at Newquay, especially as passenger numbers for XC seem to have fallen over the last few years. I am not sure for Great Western. Would only need to be 1 train on 'changeover' day for each company to Minehead. I know HST's were stored at Minehead several years ago. I travelled on the Steam Railway and saw ex Virgin Power Cars and coaches mothballed there. (Were these the ones that XC refurbished?)

It is good that the West Somerset is negotiating though. What do others think? Is it workable or even profitable?

 
It was tried half heartedly about five years ago, but was not a success. However, I think that was down to the fact that it was only announced when most people would have already made their arrangements (or, more to the point, those people who might have holidayed at Minehead had a rail connection been available, had by then made alternative plans.)

So if it's going to work it needs to be in place at the start of the year, so that people can plan accordingly.

 

It was also expensive I believe!

 
Yes, I seem to recall thinking at the time that as an "add-on" from Bristol to Minehead it wasn't cheap, particularly when thinking that the profile of people likely to be taking their summer holidays at Butlins Minehead would imply a relatively limited budget.

 
As with any other railway service improvement, a bit of money will have to spent in "priming the pump", and the traditional source is the local authority. I wonder if this has been looked at by Somerset CC from a business case point of view?

As for Butlins being an indication of a low budget, I had a look at an apartment for 2 adults, 2 children in May. Regular price is over ^1000.

 
That will be the West Somerset Council that is already on the verge of going bust, then? 

See Why West Somerset Council is at risk of going bust 

 

One and the same, which is why I was never confident.

 
IMHO, through trains form the national network onto the WSR is an idea whose time has come.
It may not happen just yet for the reasons already given, but I predict that within a few years we will see regular through services.

Taunton to Minehead is the obvious route, but from furthur away would be a possibility as well.
The large station car park at Bishops Lydeard is regulary well filled in the summer, and many more passengers come on the limited bus service. Presumably many of these customers would use a through train if one existed.

As well as traditional family holidays, Butlins regularly hold large scale religous events and music festivals, these attract huge crowds many of whom dont drive.
Those attending music festivals probably enjoy a drink, and at the religous events many seem to choose not to drive.
Busses dont provide a suitable alternative for these numbers.

On a "butlins day" local chaos often results.

Through trains would considerably relieve matters. At busy times full length loco hauled trains would be well filled, with DMUs being a realistic alternative at less busy times.
I wonder if some of the rules regarding the national network could be relaxed if heritage trains are running at only modest speeds and for short distances on the national network.
Would It really be that dangerous to allow a couple of preserved locomotives and say 8 MK11 coaches to run into Taunton ?

 
Sounds as though Butlins might get asked for a contribution.....:-)

 
I would love to see regular through trains from Minehead and/or Bishop's Lydeard to Taunton and beyond, but cannot realistically see this happening for some time to come. Mr Conibeare mentions trains "continuing" beyond Taunton onto the WSR, which suggests to me that he envisages the possibility of tweaking the existing  GW timetable to extend current Taunton terminators to Bishop's Lydeard (I do not think regular running beyond BL would be realistic, because the WSR runs at virtually full capacity in summer). This might make the service more economic to GW, but would it be easy to operate in practice? There are no signal boxes between Taunton and Bishop's Lydeard, but (I believe) two junctions with ground frames. Would this necessitate the GW service carrying a guard or pilotman - perhaps someone versed in signalling practices could explain? In the longer term, is the possibility of WSR themselves running through to Taunton not a more likely prospect?

In any case, I think the primary aim has to be improving access from the national network to the WSR itself, with the benefit to Butlins' clients - at the moment at least - a secondary consideration. Butlins relies heavily on its proximity to the motorway, and while high summer on the M5 is my idea of hell, there is much to be said for the convenience of a big family car packed full of luggage. As for the train attracting customers off the buses, the bus does have the advantage that it drives right into the holiday camp. Butlins is only a moderate stroll along the seafront from Minehead station, but those with heavy luggage might be put off. The line does run right along the back of the camp - perhaps a "Butlins Halt" between Dunster and Minehead would be a possibility!

 
The m5 is not the issue, the a38 around carhampton is a major bottleneck

 

Please pardon my sense of humour, but I couldn't help but envisage such a halt thus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyuwBW9lNa8 

 

More of a problem is the A39, all the way from Bridgwater. I have had the misfortune of driving to Minehead on a summer Saturday more than once. Whether you go via Bridgwater or via Taunton, it is top-start all the way from Williton. Coming home one day, heavily laden with family, we got stuck behind the departing Butliners by the station. Having crawled past the supermarket in a very long time, I noticed the corner of a road atlas sticking out from underneath the great pile of stuff on the rear parcel shelf. I thought if we could get it, we could find another way home. 20 minutes later, as we neared the roundabout 200 metres further, my daughter managed to free it. Triumph was short-lived though, because it was an atlas of France. It may still have been quicker to return to Bristol via Paris and Lyons, but we gave up. These days, I know the area well enough to find my way home by a number of routes, but never find myself there on Saturdays.

Prices are a bit steep, but offers can be had. WSR have discounted Day Rover tickets, but you will have to move fast, as the offer ends on Friday 26 April. You can buy a day rover for an adult for ^10.00, which is ^7.00 off the usual price, valid for one day's unlimited travel until 1 January 2014. Details here. WSR are good with local residents, too, offering a pass for half price travel. It costs ^10.00 for 2 years, and is available to anyone who is a council tax payer in the post-codes around the railway.

 
I'm sorry I did mean the a39... It's been a while since I was up there but you are correct williton as soon as you get to the petrol station

 
I remember a summer Saturday journey to Porlock for a family gathering when I was a kid.

There were two cars from Taunton and my step-dad decided to turn left at Cedar Falls and head for Wheddon Cross and Horner. We arrived in Porlock a full 15 minutes before my grandparents, who had crawled along the A358/A39 with the holiday traffic.

 

This was seriously considered a few years ago, and like through running might be worth revisiting.
A loop  off the WSR main line into Butlins car park was proposed. This would require several hundred yards of track, 2 points and protecting signals, a platform, and 2 small bridges to carry the loop over a small stream and adjacent footpath/cycleway.
A halt actualy on the line would be less useful as though nearer to Butlins than Minehead station it would still be a bit far with luggage, and would still need one bridge.

A halt actualy on the main line would also be liable to cause delay to other services during loading and unloading at busy times.

 
 There are no signal boxes between Taunton and Bishop's Lydeard, but (I believe) two junctions with ground frames. Would this necessitate the GW service carrying a guard or pilotman - perhaps someone versed in signalling practices could explain?

There is a Signalled route into and out of the West Somerset in both directions. This has had to be done to allow Network Rail stone trains onto the WSR. Some deal between NR and the WSR that provided all the materials for the latters new triangle at Norton Fitzwarren. From Taunton access is gained via the Down relief, and is signalled with a Lunar Light Junction Indicator (Feathers!) onto the WSR. Also the route out is signalled as well. Both are Colour lights controlled from Exeter panel (until Didcot takes over!). This was also part of the necessary works to allow NR trains onto the WSR. I would assume that the section runs now from the junction up to Bishops Lydeard, but please correct me if this is not the case on the WSR.

I believe this does make a through service more possible. I hope one can be implemented in the future, but as one of the previous contributors to this thread has pointed out. It does need to be 'primed' and planned well in advance

 
I keep wondering what is happening at the West Somerset Railway. It has been trying for many years to get access to Taunton and now it has that so that occasional excursions can get from the network to the line but nothing seems to be happening on getting some form of public service from Minehead to Taunton. Is it objections from the unions? Or is it that a subsidy would be needed from Somerset County Council and it can no longer find the money due to budgetary constraints? or something else?

 
The last I read, a bid for funding had failed.

Somerset Gazette

 
I very much doubt there would be union problems now. There's very little militant union activity by bus drivers these days.

Back in 1976, the nascent West Somerset Railway had to end plans to run into Taunton because of objections from the local branch of the NUR. It wasn't railway workers that were objecting, but bus drivers in the NUR who feared for their livelihoods. The bus drivers were concerned that if the WSR were to reach Taunton it would affect their jobs working the Taunton-Minehead buses. Trying to sort this 'blacking' was a frustrating endeavour for the WSR. They were told by the national executive of the NUR that this was a local branch issue, whilst the local branch of the NUR representing the bus drivers was saying that the 'blacking' was a decision that could only be changed by the executive!! Very odd that the NUR were so militant when a few bus drivers jobs may have been affected, but oddly silent a few years earlier when many of their members were made redundant following BR's closure of the Taunton-Minehead branch.

Back then it was hoped that the WSR would be a commercial public transport operator in addition to a heritage one.

Funding is the major stumbling block. Another is capacity at Taunton station.

 
As a resident of West Somerset, I can see what a phenomenal success the West Somerset Railway is, and understand that they do not want to commit themselves to a project which would compromise their profitability. The most obvious solution I can envisage is one where FGW/Network Rail pay for not only the initial investment necessary for the Taunton-Bishop's Lydeard link to meet the requirements for regular scheduled services, but also its ongoing maintenance. This may well depend on whether it is feasible to fit an extended Bristol-Taunton-Bishop's Lydeard service into the timetable, because otherwise they would incur the expense of running extra empty-stock services. The only variation on this solution, which may be a little fanciful, is for FGW, while bearing the cost of the service, to contract out the running of the trains to the WSR - this would have the advantage that the stock is already in place at Bishop's Lydeard, but would, I assume, necessitate the extension of a fully independent WSR track all the way into Taunton in order to exempt the WSR from having to meet national rail requirements.

 
The problem with extending the Bristol - Taunton services is the time it takes to get to and from BL, so an extra unit is inevitable, which would make it uneconomic. However, recent improvements at Norton mean that it would be possible to build a second platform there, and have one for WSR trains, and the other for FGW services. This would cut quite a lot off the return journey from Taunton.

One possibility might be to run a limited service, targeted at giving periodic opportunities for those who would want to use the connection. So for example it could run on Tues and Thus in the summer holiday, offering a day out opportunity from North Somerset stations to the SWR and Minehead. And similarly on some Sats or Suns, which would also offer a reverse opportunity for communities on the WSR to have a day out in Bristol, Bath or elsewhere.

Realistically though, I can't see this happening until more dmu stock becomes available, so 2016 at the earliest. By which time we'll probably be back in franchise letting time, (I confidently expect the new franchise to run into 2016), so thinking about the link will be very low priority for operators.
 

 

Have not heard that suggestion aired before, and it is an interesting possibility. But surely a station in that location would essentially become a park-and-ride for the Dulverton/Bampton/Wiveliscombe area (as well as the recently expanded Norton Fitzwarren village). I cannot see the WSR considering it worth running connecting services for commuters, and as for leisure travellers heading for the WSR, they already have a half-hourly bus which picks up adjacent to the platform in Taunton and drops them right outside the station at Bishop's Lydeard.

 

I believe there are strict planning considerations that preclude the use of Norton platform for anything that involves driving there, so a park and ride would be out of the question, and the only viable use would be as an interchange station.

As for the half hourly bus service, I suspect anything that involves a bus connection immediately puts a lot of prospective punters off. Think of the way it could be marketed, for those looking at a day out in the summer holidays:-

a) direct service (eg from stations Bristol to Taunton) to Norton, where you conveniently change onto a WSR train to Minehead. One through ticket.

b) train to Taunton, then you have to get (OK, where from?) a bus connection to Bishops L (what if the train's late, what if the bus is late, do I have to buy another ticket, is my Family Railcard valid, what about pushchairs, all my picnic coolboxes etc), and then catch the WSR to Minehead.  

 

I know that that restriction applies to the existing WSR station, but surely the opposite would apply to a new FGW station - would the planning authorities give permission for a new station without car parking? Either it is a flop, in which case it is a waste of time, or it is a success, in which case the local roads get clogged with parked cars.

Assuming the new station is somewhere between Norton Fitzwarren junction and the WSR boundary (any other option would require new pointwork and signalling), trains still have to cross the other running lines to reach it - is this viable for regular services? Is building a station here actually cheaper than simply extending the WSR the rest of the way into the disused platform at Taunton, which would remove any operational problems? If you already assume WSR are happy to run trains to Norton, then no doubt they would go the extra 2 miles to Taunton. This assumes FGW are happy to fund the extension (perhaps in return for a reasonable charge for access to Taunton station), because I do not think the WSR want to pay for it.


It may put some off - FGW should promote the bus more explicitly as a WSR link as well as a Minehead link.


You can already get a through "buslink" ticket to Minehead, so you can use this as far as Bishop's Lydeard to change for the WSR. WSR,FGW and First Bus need to get together to offer a "West Somerset Link" ticket valid on both the bus and train.
 

As soon as you get off the train at Taunton you are facing a sign directing you back along the same (usually) platform to the bus stop. If you are towards the rear of the train, you can practically jump from the train door to the bus door without your feet touching the ground. As for the timing, I think that for most leisure travellers, half-hourly is a good enough frequency that they will not even bother checking the times - if you strike lucky, you have 2 minutes wait; if it is nearer 30 minutes, you go for a cup of tea and watch the world go by.

 
I'm sorry but I don't believe for one moment that eg, a family, let's say a mother and two young children, maybe one in a pushchair would find the option of a bus connection attractive. They are not to know that the bus stop is outside, or even that through fares are available. The possibility of arriving just after a WSR train had departed and having maybe an hour's wait for the next one would be offputting. Yet a simple, stay on the train until Norton and then change onto another one is a safe option.

I discounted the option of the WSR extending to Taunton - they haven't shown any inclination to do it over the last 30 years, so I think one can assume that it's an unattractive option - either down to the capital cost or ongoing running costs including the numerous requirements to run on the national rail network.   By the way, I don't think FGW would pay for any extension of the WSR into Taunton, the infrastructure operator is Network Rail, so any "deal" would be with them (as is currently happening with the second platform at Whitby for the North York Moors Railway).

 
Picking up on a point made by Red Squirrel, and reading interesting posts by John R and Puffing Billy subsequently, I'm rather inclined to try to split this topic into a separate discussion on the West Somerset Railway, and merge it with a previous discussion as to why the WSR haven't expanded their services into Taunton yet.

Please bear with me while I do a bit of moving and merging.